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God sent his son to be Saviour of the world, He will be 100% successful in his mission.
The false hoods that we need to concentrate on is the fact that the means by which this truth in scripture happens will not be pleasant for everyone.
Those who teach that we can just skate through life without accountability are the false teachers. Christians who believe the contradiction to Pauls life that you do not have sin in you just because your a believer, that is false.
We could compile a great list of things, and within each of our perspectives there is something in what we believe that hinders not only ourselves but those we contact.
The question is, when will believers in Jesus, believe the true nature of his power in the most insecribable positive sense.
What I see is warnings of doom that Jesus fails to save the world, not warnings that actually carve the spirit to a higher level.
He is God Almighty! For me, Betsey, I respect that! I respect that He is just! And will give to each and everyone of us: JUST as we DESERVE!!
Be it life everlasting, or death........know what I mean?
And why would this be the very last verses in Isaiah? Isaiah is widely known as a condensation of the entire bible, which is why it is quoted so often, even by Jesus as He was fulfilling it. So the last verse in Isaiah says that ALL mankind will look upon the corpses of those who have sinned against God, without a covering by the Blood because they are in the fire, and that the believers are repulsed by what they see. Any thoughts?
I believe the corpses are more symbolic rather than referring to the literal physical body, though I can take it literally, just don't think that's it. Every person who is saved and made righteous will look upon his former self as he once was: a carnal man, living in the lusts of the flesh, under the wrath of God, a walking dead man. That includes all since all sinned against God.
Ezekiel 20:42 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall bring you into the land of Israel, into the country for the which I lifted up mine hand to give it to your fathers. 43 And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have been defiled; and ye shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed. 44 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have wrought with you for my name's sake, not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations
Paul viewed his "body of death" as something to be freed from. Something that made him "wretched"
Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Again, we could take "body of death" purely literally a reference only to his physical body, but I think it's more than that, a reference to "sin that dwelleth in me".
I understand Isaiah 66:22-24 to be the culmination of all things, though I could be wrong.
Hi Betsey. I realize I sort of jumped into this conversation midstream and you don't know me from Eve, so it's no surprise that you would have some questions about where I stand.
I read that passage as being fulfilled in a spiritual sense, as I have described. I believe the language there is symbolic.
The fact that you take what I shared to be my way of continuing to live sinfully doesn't make any sense to me. As a Christian, living in the knowledge of God's love and grace and the sacrifice Jesus Christ has made for me, I very much look at my old man of sin with abhorrence. I am grateful that every day the Father is dealing with my sin, saving me from it, and raising me up in the "New Man" He has created within me through Jesus Christ. I do not revel in my sinful condition but look forward with hopeful expectation to the day when this process will be complete. I also take great joy in knowing that God has promised that ALL PEOPLE will experience this very same thing.
I understand that you do not agree that God will do this for all, but to equate my belief that Jesus has come to conquer sin in ALL with a love of sin is nonsensical.
Don't let Betsy Lane get you down Pleroo...she has proven herself to be extremely judgmental of those who don't believe exactly as she does. You and I both know that doctrinal issues do not affect our salvation...disagreements in these things don't lesson our love for God nor does it lessen the love He has for us. God looks at our hearts...it's a shame others don't. You just keep on loving God and He will keep on loving you.
Don't let Betsy Lane get you down Pleroo...she has proven herself to be extremely judgmental of those who don't believe exactly as she does. You and I both know that doctrinal issues do not affect our salvation...disagreements in these things don't lesson our love for God nor does it lessen the love He has for us. God looks at our hearts...it's a shame others don't. You just keep on loving God and He will keep on loving you.
Hi ChristyGrl let me assure you Betsey Lane knows without a doubt to whom judgment belong's.
If I have came across as been extremely judgmental to "people", I truly apologize, as that was never my intent. In case you don't know who I am and what I stand for, please: Hi!! Let me re-introduce myself.............
The mirror...is a good place to start practicing what you preach. My mission has always and will remain the same: To bring the lost to Christ. To tell that they can COME JUST AS THEY ARE!! To let them know, that everything will make sense soon, but they need to do SOMETHING! The something being: You GOT to answer that knock! To bring them in and let HIM, GOD ALMIGHTY sort them out!
Sounds to me the only one being judgmental here is you, hence; the mirror........the finger that is pointing, is pointing right back at whom? Yes, you've got it! YOU!
PS: Don't confuse confidence for judgmental. For I'm confident in my Lord and Saviour's ability to judge fairly. Giving us JUST-AS-WE-DESERVE! It's with great confidence that I can say this, I trust Him!
The fact that you take what I shared to be my way of continuing to live sinfully doesn't make any sense to me. As a Christian, living in the knowledge of God's love and grace and the sacrifice Jesus Christ has made for me, I very much look at my old man of sin with abhorrence. I am grateful that every day the Father is dealing with my sin, saving me from it, and raising me up in the "New Man" He has created within me through Jesus Christ. I do not revel in my sinful condition but look forward with hopeful expectation to the day when this process will be complete. I also take great joy in knowing that God has promised that ALL PEOPLE will experience this very same thing.
I understand that you do not agree that God will do this for all, but to equate my belief that Jesus has come to conquer sin in ALL with a love of sin is nonsensical.
Great post. This is the way I feel as well.
The constant "you just want to sin and let others sin as much as they want!!!" argument really makes me take pause. Because it makes me think others who keep screaming these "YOU LOVE SIN AND WANT TO KEEP SINNING. IT IS SWEET CANDY, ETC." actually think that sin leads to happiness?? Sin leads to misery.
A person who knows God is not envious of another person who is trapped in sin. A person who knows God understands that that person is headed down a road that is leading to misery. Sin is emptiness. There should be a REJOICING to know in your heart, that person may be headed down that path of misery, but ultimately God is going to bring them over on HIS PATH to righteousness. That is the good news!!
Sin isn't "candy". That's a very disturbing idea and makes me wonder if those who continually seem to espouse that idea are somehow envious of those who "get to sin" and still "get to go to heaven". It seems they have some major issues dealing with the sin in their own lives. That is why there seems to be such a ferocity in their posts.
Perhaps they imagine, let's take for example a sterotypical Hollywood type, who has earthly riches, etc., doing all sorts of sinful things, etc. and then they think "oh no! That person isn't going to heaven!!! If I have to suffer through this life, I can do it as long as I know that those rich hollywood types aren't going to eventually get to go to heaven too! Because it wouldn't be fair!!!!!!" I have known people in the past who thought these things. What is there to be envious of, when you have God's love?? When you know what leads to emptiness and despair, and what leads to life?? SIN leads to DESPAIR. Sin is emptiness.
God is taking ALL through His refining fire.
Have no fear, Sin does NOT enter the kingdom of God.
All sin is purged.
HOW?
Through His love.
His LOVE destroys the sin in us.
REJOICE! ALL sin is being destroyed.
Not the human beings TRAPPED in SIN! (remember we were SUBJECTED to futility. SUBJECTED TO! for a reason. God's plan is PERFECT, just as His love is PERFECT!)
Lust, Greed, Hatred? all being destroyed.
REJOICE! ALL have been reconciled to God.
REJOICE! Jesus Christ IS the saviour of the WORLD!
REJOICE!
Why would you even think to describe sin as "candy"?? When you know the truth of sin?? All have fallen short of the glory of God. ALL. For a reason. We were subjected to futility for a reason:
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. 24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.
See... that's the thing. God's love is all encompassing. When you know that eventually ALL will finally someday walk that PATH of RIGHTEOUSNESS through Jesus... your heart becomes enlarged to be able to LOVE all, just as HE loves all. This is what "Jesus in your heart" actually means. So many have it so backwards. They HATE their enemies and feel justified in doing so. No. GOD said to LOVE YOUR ENEMIES. What happens when you love your enemies? They become your FRIENDS. Even if right now while they are under the cloud of darkness THEY don't feel they are your friend, they are your friend in YOUR HEART. You have the light of God's love in YOUR heart. LOVE CONQUERS ALL.
For those who keep screaming "you all just want to keep sinning"... I would say you need to take a good long hard look at yourself and your heart and what you see in other people. And through WHAT heart you are seeing other people... YOUR HEART? Or GOD's heart??
God sees the inner.
We see the outer.
That is why so many become so confused.
They cannot get past the shallow exterior and see the inner person inside.
They only see the shell. Well, the shell of a person is nothing. It's what is on the inside that counts. We are all the same. We are all HIS children.
ALL are on the way BACK HOME.
All are being led back home on their own unique path.
ALL have value.
ALL are loved.
Not ALL know they are loved, but eventually ALL WILL come to the knowledge of the Lord. For...They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea. Is. 11:9
His PLAN is magnificent.
And how wonderful that when you do start to understand His plan, that ALL will be reconciled.... you start to see people in a new light. A redeemed light. You cast off those ideas you had of people and start to see them and LOVE them TRULY as your brothers and sisters. What could GLORIFY GOD MORE than to develop the LOVE in your heart for ALL people??? Can I ask you... WHAT could possibly GLORIFY GOD more than for His children to develop LOVE for all people?? Isn't that the second of His 2 great commandments??? Some of those that we love may be very LOST right now... but in your heart you know they will be FOUND. He IS the Good Shepherd who will leave the 99 to go seek out and bring back the ONE that is lost.
Hi ChristyGrl let me assure you Betsey Lane knows without a doubt to whom judgment belong's.
If I have came across as been extremely judgmental to "people", I truly apologize, as that was never my intent. In case you don't know who I am and what I stand for, please: Hi!! Let me re-introduce myself.............
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt when you say it is not your intent to come across as judgmental...but based on your past posts, that is exactly the way you come across. You leer and jeer at others and their beliefs. There have been many occassions when you have called other believers sinners because they don't believe the word exactly the way you do...this is wrong and I think deep down you know that. Neither you nor I have the right to judge anyone's beliefs...you would be better served and would serve others better by sharing what you believe to be the truth without thumping people over the head with your beliefs...this just makes nonbelievers, who read these posts, think we are all religious fanatic idiots and will bring no one closer to Christ. Sharing the Gospel should be done in a loving manner, not with fear or contempt for others and their beliefs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane
The mirror...is a good place to start practicing what you preach. My mission has always and will remain the same: To bring the lost to Christ. To tell that they can COME JUST AS THEY ARE!! To let them know, that everything will make sense soon, but they need to do SOMETHING! The something being: You GOT to answer that knock! To bring them in and let HIM, GOD ALMIGHTY sort them out!
Sounds to me the only one being judgmental here is you, hence; the mirror........the finger that is pointing, is pointing right back at whom? Yes, you've got it! YOU!
PS: Don't confuse confidence for judgmental. For I'm confident in my Lord and Saviour's ability to judge fairly. Giving us JUST-AS-WE-DESERVE! It's with great confidence that I can say this, I trust Him!
Betsey
I try my best not to belittle others and their beliefs, I'm not going to say I never fail at that because as humans, we all sin and I am no different. I am not so close minded as to believe that I have all the answers...none of us should be because we don't, contrary to what we may think. I love that I can come on this forum and see how others believe, just because some believe differently than I do doesn't make them any less my brothers and sisters in Christ. Salvation requires one thing and that is to believe on the Lord, Jesus Christ...all these doctrinal disagreements that we have as believers will not affect that and to call others sinners when we don't know their hearts is......I'll just leave it at that and hope that in the future we can all be kinder and more compassionate to those who believe differently than we do. We all have one common denominator that unites us and that is...We love God and want others to find Him.
So what you believe this verse says...is when we physically die, we no longer have any sin? I'm not seeing that here Kat. The above scripture when taken in the entire of context of what Paul is writing in Ch 6 is talking about crucifying our old man/killing him off (the sin in us) and living for Christ, no longer being enslaved by the sin/carnality that is in us.
So yes, while the word dead in that sentence may actually be defined as physical death...it does not, when taken in context actually refer to physical death but the death of our carnal/sinful man in us.
See what I mean?
It fits perfectly. Why would your sins count against you when you are dead, physically dead... for the wages of sin is death. When you are alive you must spiritually die in order to live sin free...Jesus made that possible. But when you die physically, there is no more payment needed because the wages are not applicable. After death, sin does not apply for the carnal sins since the carnal is dead. God is the God of the living.
I realized that makes for a boring "afterlife" considering nothing exciting happens but hey... bottom line is that we are all saved. No one will burn in hell or be annihilated.
It fits perfectly. Why would your sins count against you when you are dead, physically dead... for the wages of sin is death. When you are alive you must spiritually die in order to live sin free...Jesus made that possible. But when you die physically, there is no more payment needed because the wages are not applicable. After death, sin does not apply for the carnal sins since the carnal is dead. God is the God of the living.
I realized that makes for a boring "afterlife" considering nothing exciting happens but hey... bottom line is that we are all saved. No one will burn in hell or be annihilated.
So with this view in mind, what do you see as the Lake of Fire/Second Death?
Is this some kind of a new twist? We will be literally looking down at the "old men" that was cast off us, put to death? Wow!
Stop it people! There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
You want to hear what you want to hear instead of relying on the words of God:
Some of you want a feel good story that's only going to acknowledge what your deceiving minds can perceive this side of the kingdom:
You want a reason to keep on sinning and not make the appropriate changes you know you need to make in this life before meeting YOUR MAKER:
Sin is sweet and some of you LOVE IT and will find any good reason to keep on eating that sweet candy, even it means twisting the scriptures to suit your own corrupted taste buds:
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.
People we are here..............It's time to get real and truthful with yourselves.
Betsey! Boy do you have an imagination! Looking back at how we used to be is looking back at our "old man." Haven't you ever looked back at how you used to be and wished worms would devour that picture? So you didn't have to remember how foolish you were?
That is all it's saying... Nothing supernatural just colorful language which was very common throughout the OT.
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The Mirror.........
