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God, through the prophet Ezekiel, is using the similitude of a wretched infant, to show the natural state of Jerusalem...and He extends His extraordinary love toward her. Then she betrays Him with her *****dom, and He pours out His judgement upon her...her sins exceeding those of her mother and her sisters, Sodom and Samaria...all called for judgments, and then, in the end, mercy is promised to Jerusalem.
This Chapter does not prove that one can be saved after death.
IOW God could point blank tell you that He is going to restore Sodom whom He wiped out and you wouldn't believe Him. But you would believe that God will be merciful to those who were worse than Sodom. Go figure.
I don't need to prove one can be saved after death: There is no verse that says one can not be saved after death. God's mercy endures "forever" or "through the ages" is proof enough that God's mercy does not end at death. But you think God's mercy ends when the clock strikes "TOO LATE".
Last edited by Thy Kingdom Come; 09-25-2009 at 09:40 PM..
Oh Good Lord... I thought you had something nice to say... Gloating Gloating Gloating. That right there is how you tell a good spirit from a bad.
Oh no kat...not gloating...it's called REJOICING IN THE LORD!!!
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Originally Posted by kat
Twisting? Yikes... Those spiritually dead are judged according to MEN regarding the BODY, but live in the spirit according to GOD.
Yep, that's what it says....yep, it does for sure say that...Yep...sure enough, it does say that kat!...Too bad for Ironmaw it's speaking of living people who are being judge according to MEN regarding the BODY, but LIVE in the spirit according to God...and it has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH A DEAD PERSON HAVING DIED IN HIS SIN, THEN HAVING A SECOND CHANCE AT SALVATION...which is what Ironmaw wanted to use to prove just that! He blew it royally!
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The gospel is preached so that the DEAD IN SPIRIT can recognize and live by the spirit God already gave them....
Yea, and your point?...Awww, forget it kat, you don't need to answer...go hold Ironmaws hand...he needs you right now...he needs like-minded company.
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Originally Posted by kat
No twisting... I'm saying the same thing as the verse. There is no need for a torture chamber/annihilation because they will be judged according to men in [REGARD TOTHE] body [AS IN THE BODY OF CHRIST]... like a cut of hand if the steal... you know man's laws....
OH NO!!! YOU'RE NOT TWISTING SCRIPTURE...NO...NOT AT ALL.....!
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Originally Posted by kat
What's with that "but live according to God in regard to the spirit" and what does it mean to you?
You don't know kat?...it means that hopefully the living will hear the Gospel that is preached, receive it, and be judged by the body of Christ, that he is indeed a true Christian, and that he is found living in the Spirit of Christ.
Oh yes! After Ironmaw had so many horrible things to say to me concerning my faith, and my knowledge of the Scriptures...trying to degrade me...he gave a verse that he said proved that a man could be saved after he was dead in the ground...he twisted this verse so bad I almost fell out of my chair...it is priceless!!!!
God's truth won!! Satan's lies lost!! And this will ALWAYS be!! Read: (It's post #181!!) Then Ironmaw suddenly bowed out...! I probably would have dissappeared too if I were him...
Quote:Verna
If anyone rejects God's Truth upon hearing it, and they die before recieving Him, TOO LATE!! NOW YOU PROOVE THAT THEY HAVE A SECOND CHANCE AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN LAID SIX FEET UNDER!! YOU HAVE FAILED MISERABLY IN SHOWING ME WHERE IN THE BIBLE IT STATES THIS!!!
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Originally Posted by Ironmaw
1Pe 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel is preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit [/quote]
...And here we have it folks...LOOK! Ironmaws explanation...FINALLY! we get it out of him....LOL!!!!!
Oh, um, excuse me Ironmaw...I got a lttle excited there for a moment...but for your information...this just happens to be talking about the living who are dead spiritually...?...LOL!!
...But that's o.k....I understand....you may need to go take a laxative now............
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Originally Posted by Ironmaw There ya go, i don't know how you missed it but i have quoted it many of times as have many others. Your wrong again ...
Verna: OH BOY IRONMAW...have you ever quoted it this time...you really blew it!!! Now....wiggle out of this...
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Originally Posted by Ironmaw Learning the truth is never a waste of time. Humble yourself and let the spirit into your heart and fill you with the love of God for all things. Then you will understand why your false doctrine is not the true Gospel of Christ.
Verna: Yes, You may want to do that...
Thank you sweet Jesus!!! You have proven once again how You do take care of your own!!! Praise His Holy Name!!!
Verna, your post is filled with such hostility,anger, and pride. All of this laughing and telling someone to take a laxative,etc. You seem to have this prideful desire to just wanna be right. Telling iron that he blew it and God`s truth won and satan lost. It appears what you really want to say is verna thinks she won. I see no loving or peaceful spirit in the things you write, verna. My prayers are with you.
I just read three commentaries (all ETers I suppose) and 2/3 agree with Ironmaw while the third calls that verse "a diffucult place" and explains both literally and spiritually. My question is.... Do your sarcasm, scorn and LOL's apply to these ET'ers too?
After hours of going back and forth with Ironmaw, putting up with the sarcastic, arrogant things he said to me, only to be made a fool of like he accused me of being...I deserve to feel joy! And I do! HALLELUJUAH! PRAISE GOD!
6. For--giving the reason for 1Pe 4:5 , "judge the dead."
gospel preached also to . . . dead--as well as to them now living, and to them that shall be found alive at the coming of the Judge. "Dead" must be taken in the same literal sense as in 1Pe 4:5 , which refutes the explanation "dead" in sins.
i. Peter has already told us that Jesus preached to the spirits in prison, preaching a message of judgment (1 Peter 3:19). Apparently during this same time, Jesus also preached a message of salvation to the faithful dead in Abraham’s Bosom (Luke 16:22) who anticipated the work of the Messiah for them.
ii. This preaching to those who are dead was not the offer of a second chance, but the completion of the salvation of those who
2. That for this cause was the gospel preached also to those that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the Spirit, v. 6. Some understand this difficult place thus: For this cause was the gospel preached to all the faithful of old, who are now dead in Christ, that thereby they might be taught and encouraged to bear the unrighteous judgments and persecutions which the rage of men put upon them in the flesh, but might live in the Spirit unto God.[/quote]Bottom line...the dead in Christ are NOT dead in the ground!!!...they are dead to their own sinful flesh nature, and living in the Spirit of Christ Jesus!!! Not a difficult place to be at all...it is a precious place to be for a Christian!
IOW God could point blank tell you that He is going to restore Sodom whom He wiped out and you wouldn't believe Him. But you would believe that God will be merciful to those who were worse than Sodom. Go figure.
God will ALWAYS love HIS people!...He will ALWAYS show mercy to them!
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Originally Posted by TKC
I don't need to prove one can be saved after death: There is no verse that says one can not be saved after death. God's mercy endures "forever" or "through the ages" is proof enough that God's mercy does not end at death. But you think God's mercy ends when the clock strikes "TOO LATE".
...only to be made a fool of like he accused me of being...
Not sure why you think he was made a fool of if all three commentaries agree that 1 Peter 4:6 could be about preaching to the physically dead (not that I have any strong view one way or the other as I haven't really studied that verse).
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Originally Posted by katjonjj Oh Good Lord... I thought you had something nice to say... Gloating Gloating Gloating. That right there is how you tell a good spirit from a bad.
Oh no kat...not gloating...it's called REJOICING IN THE LORD!!!
To gloat: to look at or think about with great or excessive, often smug or malicious. (Webster) Still looks like gloating when you say: "...And here we have it folks...LOOK! Ironmaws explanation...FINALLY! we get it out of him....LOL!!!!!
Oh, um, excuse me Ironmaw...I got a lttle excited there for a moment...but for your information...this just happens to be talking about the living who are dead spiritually...?...LOL!!
...But that's o.k....I understand....you may need to go take a laxative now............" and "Verna: OH BOY IRONMAW...have you ever quoted it this time...you really blew it!!! Now....wiggle out of this..."
ending a post with: "Thank you sweet Jesus!!! You have proven once again how You do take care of your own!!! Praise His Holy Name!!!"
is hardly excuse for what gloating happened prior to this.
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Originally Posted by kat Twisting? Yikes... Those spiritually dead are judged according to MEN regarding the BODY, but live in the spirit according to GOD.
Yep, that's what it says....yep, it does for sure say that...Yep...sure enough, it does say that kat!...Too bad for Ironmaw it's speaking of living people who are being judge according to MEN regarding the BODY, but LIVE in the spirit according to God...and it has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH A DEAD PERSON HAVING DIED IN HIS SIN, THEN HAVING A SECOND CHANCE AT SALVATION...which is what Ironmaw wanted to use to prove just that! He blew it royally!
I totally get what you are saying. But that is no reason to gloat. Ironmaw or I may not agree on what this verse says but that doesn't mean he is in error about a person having died in his sin having a second chance at salvation. I believe and I can make a strong case that the blood of Christ covers our sins no matter who we are and before we were even born.
Ironmaw has got it right... all will come to God.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kat
The gospel is preached so that the DEAD IN SPIRIT can recognize and live by the spirit God already gave them....
Yea, and your point?...Awww, forget it kat, you don't need to answer...go hold Ironmaws hand...he needs you right now...he needs like-minded company.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kat No twisting... I'm saying the same thing as the verse. There is no need for a torture chamber/annihilation because they will be judged according to men in [REGARD TOTHE] body [AS IN THE BODY OF CHRIST]... like a cut of hand if the steal... you know man's laws....
OH NO!!! YOU'RE NOT TWISTING SCRIPTURE...NO...NOT AT ALL.....!
How is this twisting? It says right there that your body or physical actions will be judge according to men. But the spiritual (in Christ even as a sinner) according to Christ. Again I can make a case for all this if you care to listen.
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Originally Posted by kat What's with that "but live according to God in regard to the spirit" and what does it mean to you?
You don't know kat?...it means that hopefully the living will hear the Gospel that is preached, receive it, and be judged by the body of Christ, that he is indeed a true Christian, and that he is found living in the Spirit of Christ.
Thank you Jesus!
The scripture we are discussing does NOT say "hopefully the living" where did you get that? it doesn't say "receive it" and it doesn't say "that he is indeed a true Christian" and it doesn't say "found living" either....
Originally Posted by Ironmaw 1Pe 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel is preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit
How are you defining "His people" when you say that?
a) Physical Israel
b) Those of faith in Christ
Those with faith in the blood of Jesus Christ, who with eyes, can see, and with ears, can hear by grace, what the Spirit of Christ is saying to them, who live in the power of the Holy Spirit which enables them to be overcomers of sin in their lives, who obey His every Word...these are His people who love Him.
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Oh Good Lord... I thought you had something nice to say... Gloating Gloating Gloating. That right there is how you tell a good spirit from a bad.
THE LORD!!! 
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