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Old 09-25-2009, 10:23 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,503,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Proove it...with Scripture....and I want to see it say that a person has a second chance after he has died, in the ground, without being right with God BEFORE he died.

That's not actually how it works. Religion invented the no second chance clause then expects people to prove wrong something that does not even exist in scriputure.

There is only one thing that matters and it is not what men say scripture means, it is what God does.

Nothing contradicts God sending his son on a mission "Saviour of the World"

Not even you can prove he will not accomplish it, because it is not up to you.

Jesus saves the world, 100% of it. You can't prove God wrong.

But you can try.
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Old 09-25-2009, 10:25 PM
 
1,567 posts, read 944,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Those with faith in the blood of Jesus Christ, who with eyes, can see, and with ears, can hear by grace, what the Spirit of Christ is saying to them, who live in the power of the Holy Spirit which enables them to be overcomers of sin in their lives, who obey His every Word...these are His people who love Him.
I agree that is true Israel of God.

But that does not describe the Jews in Ezekiel 16 whom God says he will restore. They are the opposite of what you just desribed.
  • Ezekiel 16:58 Thou hast borne thy lewdness and thine abominations, saith the LORD. 59 For thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even deal with thee as thou hast done, which hast despised the oath in breaking the covenant. 60 Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant. 61 Then thou shalt remember thy ways, and be ashamed, when thou shalt receive thy sisters, thine elder and thy younger: and I will give them unto thee for daughters, but not by thy covenant. 62 And I will establish my covenant with thee; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: 63 That thou mayest remember, and be confounded, and never open thy mouth any more because of thy shame, when I am pacified toward thee for all that thou hast done, saith the Lord GOD.
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Old 09-25-2009, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
I agree that is true Israel of God.

But that does not describe the Jews in Ezekiel 16 whom God says he will restore. They are the opposite of what you just desribed.
  • Ezekiel 16:58 Thou hast borne thy lewdness and thine abominations, saith the LORD. 59 For thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even deal with thee as thou hast done, which hast despised the oath in breaking the covenant. 60 Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant. 61 Then thou shalt remember thy ways, and be ashamed, when thou shalt receive thy sisters, thine elder and thy younger: and I will give them unto thee for daughters, but not by thy covenant. 62 And I will establish my covenant with thee; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: 63 That thou mayest remember, and be confounded, and never open thy mouth any more because of thy shame, when I am pacified toward thee for all that thou hast done, saith the Lord GOD.
You'll have to ask God that one TKC...but He promises all through the Bible His unending love for His people...Zion! Jerusalem belongs to Him...and He promises His love to her forever.
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Old 09-25-2009, 10:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
You'll have to ask God that one TKC...but He promises all through the Bible His unending love for His people...Zion! Jerusalem belongs to Him...and He promises His love to her forever.
You really don't know the answer? The Jerusalem in Ezekiel 16 is not the Jerusalem (His people) you described. Not all Israel (physical) is Israel (of God, which you described). The children of the flesh these are NOT the children of God. The ones you described are the children of God. God promised to restore the Jerusalem in Ezekiel 16 (who were worse than Sodom) just like He promised to restore Sodom. Neither group was who you described, neither was circumcised of heart, loving God, keeping His commandments. Yet God promised to restore them.

Last edited by Thy Kingdom Come; 09-25-2009 at 10:56 PM..
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Old 09-25-2009, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,822,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
That's not actually hopw it works. Religion invented the no second chance clause then expects people to prove wrong something that does not even exist in scriputure.

There is only one thing that matters and it is not what men say scripture means, it is what God does.

Nothing contradicts God sending his son on a mission "Saviour of the World"

Not even you can prove he will not accomplish it, because it is not up to you.

Jesus saves the world, 100% of it. You can't prove God wrong.

But you can try.
I found the verse though... to show you can be reconciled after death.

verse: Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

The word dead is apothnēskō and means
1) to die
a) of the natural death of man
b) of the violent death of man or animals
c) to perish by means of something
d) of trees which dry up, of seeds which rot when planted
e) of eternal death, to be subject to eternal misery in hell


NEVER is it translated SPIRITUAL DEATH. It is ALWAYS used for actual PHYSICAL DEATH.


Am I right?


Unlike verse 11:

11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

This dead is the word nekros and can mean
1) properly
a) one that has breathed his last, lifeless
b) deceased, departed, one whose soul is in heaven or hell
c) destitute of life, without life, inanimate

2) metaph.
a) spiritually dead
1) destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins
2) inactive as respects doing right
b) destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative


which is weird that when Jesus is described as having risen from the "dead" it is nekros that is used.... interesting.


But anyway Verna... there you have it.
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Old 09-25-2009, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 4,016,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
You really don't know the answer? The Jerusalem in Ezekiel 16 is not the Jerusalem (His people) you described. Not all Israel (physical) is Israel (of God, which you described). The children of the flesh these are NOT the children of God. The ones you described are the children of God. God promised to restore the Jerusalem in Ezekiel 16 (who were worse than Sodom) just like He promised to restore Sodom. Neither group was who you described, neither was circumcised of heart, loving God, keeping His commandments. Yet God promised to restore them.
No, the cities of Sodom and Samaria were restored, but not under the covenant that God had with Jerusalem...Jerusalem was resored again back under His everlasting covenant with her. See verse 61. None of this chapter proves that ALL will be saved.

Jerusalem is Zion, His Holy Mountain...it's special to God. Anyway, none of this proves the unsaved will have a second chance at salvation after death...in the grave.
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Old 09-25-2009, 11:21 PM
 
4,116 posts, read 2,282,913 times
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Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. (shall confess, in other translations also reads "give praise"


Phillipians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.





This is the GOOD news.
All the dross will be destroyed.
Your brothers and sisters... every single human being....will one day be RECONCILED to God.
You can't deny it.
Have Faith.
And rest in His arms.
Let His peace that surpasses all understanding fill your heart once and for all.
Believe Him when He says "Every tongue will swear allegiance"!! Allegiance - Devotion or loyalty.


EVERY TONGUE WILL SWEAR DEVOTION AND LOYALTY TO GOD!


Hallelujah!!!!
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Old 09-25-2009, 11:39 PM
 
1,567 posts, read 944,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
No, the cities of Sodom and Samaria were restored...
Ezekiel isn't talking about cities as in mere geographical locations. Cities don't sin. People in cities sin.

Follow the pronouns:
they were haughty and committed abomination before me
therefore I took them away as I saw good.
thou hast committed more abominable than they
they are more righteous than thou
When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters.

And "bring again their captivity" means salvation, if you look it up throughout scripture.

So you know what Verna. I'm going to believe that THEY were haughty and committed abomination, so God took THEM and now THEY are dead, but God will one day bring again THEIR captivity.

Last edited by Thy Kingdom Come; 09-26-2009 at 12:05 AM..
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Old 09-26-2009, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 4,016,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I found the verse though... to show you can be reconciled after death.

verse: Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
(1)We may not live in sin, (2)for we are dead unto it as appeareth by our baptism in the Spirit of Christ. (12) Let not sin reign anymore, because we have yielded our selves to the service of righteousness, (23) and for that death is the wages of sin.

This Chapter in Romans, when read in context is saying something totally different than what you seem to think it means.

Paul says:

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin: that grace may abound?
God forbid: how shall we that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?...

So, Kat, this entire chapter Paul is talking to children of God who are walking in obedience to Him...and when they die , they are freed from sin...because their old man is crucified with Him, that the body might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

No Kat, you have showed me nothing.
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Old 09-26-2009, 01:30 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 4,016,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
Ezekiel isn't talking about cities as in mere geographical locations. Cities don't sin. People in cities sin.

Follow the pronouns:
they were haughty and committed abomination before me
therefore I took them away as I saw good.
thou hast committed more abominable than they
they are more righteous than thou
When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters.

And "bring again their captivity" means salvation, if you look it up throughout scripture.

So you know what Verna. I'm going to believe that THEY were haughty and committed abomination, so God took THEM and now THEY are dead, but God will one day bring again THEIR captivity.
You can believe whatever you like, that doesn't mean it is the Truth!

Ezekiel 16 cannot contradict Ezekiel 18 which states:

verse 4: behold, all souls are Mine, as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine: the soul that sinneth shall DIE.
5: But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right:...
9:...Hath walked in My Statutes, and hath kept My Judgements to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord God.

So, your correct, that the Jerusalem I said is God's Israel is not the Jerusalem that is mentioned in Ezekiel 16, they died in their sin...DEAD..."A house desolate!" The ones who live, and are here living as true believers, they will be restored the Day that Jesus returns!
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