Everlasting is Eternal is Forever... (crucified, Isaiah, divorce, prophet)

[twin.spin]

Lego, Phaze, Kat and to whom those who you disagree with i.e. verna, mike, INLC, myself..

If you do, more insight than Jesus does what is your insider info as to "condemned of what" and to "where is one condemned to" and when does the day of judgement occure in Matthew 12:36-38 ?


Matthew 12:36-38
"But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."

__________________________________________________ _________________________

Again, having more insight than Jesus, when Jesus says "will never be forgiven"... there is no aion in this. I wonder.. do you know how long is never?

Mark 3:29
But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven....he is guilty of an eternal sin."

To me when Jesus says "never", isn't that comparable to your "all means all"....or is that an exclusive argument?
Since "Never means never" meaning has no ending, then the blame starts with Jesus when he puts "eternal" connotations to "aion".

"Never means never" .... "Never means never" ...right?
Let me guess...I'm only twisting Jesus' words when "never means never" for all time (now and in eternity) and you aren't when "all means all" for all eternity

[Miss Shawn_2828]

Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776

So if i try to save someone and fail, am i still their savior? See, people don't believe, according to the bible, because they are deceived. So if Jesus was really their savior and was unable to convince them of the truth through whatever means ... if jesus was unable to reveal the truth to them then Satans power of deception is greater by far the Gods ability to draw men to Christ.

So you say Jesus is the savior of all men yet he is not able to overcome the deception of men in order to truly save them?

Your teaching that Satan is more powerful than God, and that the lies of Satan are more powerful over humanity than Gods truth. That is all there is to it.

No, I am simply reading what the bible says, not my opinion. It seems that UR's have this problem with Hell. Well, sorry, God is the one that put Hell into the bible.

So, what do you think about God and what do you think about these scriptures?

Psalm 21:9
9 You will make them as a fiery oven in the time of your anger; The Lord will swallow them up in His wrath, And fire will devour them.


Do, you not like that God will devour people for doing wrong?

Isaiah 66:16
16 For the Lord will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the Lord will be many.


Do, you have a problem that God will execute judgement on those whom the Lord will punish? This is in God's Word. Not our say so.

Matthew 13:41–42
The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth

Now, I am just talking about people being sent to Hell, this is God sending these people there. We are just pointing this out, and UR's says that we are calling God something that we are not. He is showing what will be done to those who offend Him.

Mark 9:47–48
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— where ‘ Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched

Now, as I read this, UMMM, this is talking about the person, I mean a mere worm want be in hell, the person will.

This scripture talks about the worm not dieing, so lets look at another scripture.

Job 25:6 how much less man is but a maggot- a son of man who is only a worm.

John 15:6

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

If someone does not abide in Christ, they will burn, fire is associated with Hades. Now how me scripture that says that God will eventually bring those out of Hell into the New Heaven and the New Earth.

Revelation 20:14–15

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Show me scripture that says that those who are not into this book will not be cast into the lake of fire, and show me scripture that says that those in this lake, God will eventually bring them out.

[Miss Shawn_2828]

Originally Posted by legoman

Miss_Shawn, you are making a big assumption here - that God throws people into hell. Hell is hugely mistranslated, and the Lake of Fire is not hell. There is no scripture that says God puts people in "hell". So why would there be a scripture that says people come out of "hell" when there is no scripture that says people are "thrown into hell"?

The above scriptures I've shown are very relevant. God will have all men to be saved. God will reconcile all to Himself. God will bring all under Christ. It doesn't exclude people that are allegedly "thrown into hell". God reconciles ALL PEOPLE. EVERYONE. That is your scriptural answer. You only have to believe it.

Revelation 20:14–15

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Show me scripture that says that those who are not into this book will not be cast into the lake of fire, and show me scripture that says that those in this lake, God will eventually bring them out.

Show me scripture that says that these in the Lake of Fire are reconciled out of this fire, show me scripture where God brings these out of this fire into the New Heaven and The New Earth.

I don't have a problem with everyone being with Jesus, but I have a problem believing it when the scriptures don't support it. I believe in the lake of fire because it is there in scripture, if it wasn't, I wouldn't believe it.

[Thy Kingdom Come]

Originally Posted by Verna Perry

...No matter what you have heard...
When Scripture declares something to be eternal...everlasting and forever, whatever it may be, depending on the verse, it absolutely DOES mean everlasting, eternal and forever!!!

"Depending on the verse"

So it means everlasting except when it doesn't.

[Thy Kingdom Come]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

Please define "will never be forgiven"... there is no aion in this

How long is never?

You who demand "all means all" is not "never means never" have the same properties to them, as in never is to say...eternal.

Mark 3:29
But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven....he is guilty of an eternal sin."

The word translated "never" falls under "misc" below as it is generally translated "not" rather than "never".

AV — not 1210, no 147, cannot + 1410 57, misc 123

Whoever blaphemes the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. I agree with that. See Lamentations 3 for an example of sin not pardoned that doesn't put the one not pardoned in everlasting hell.

Here is YLT

Mark 3:29 but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment

[Fundamentalist]

Mark 3:29 (New American Standard Bible)

29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"--

because...why....You offended an eternal God not a God of "the age"

[Ironmaw1776]

Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828

No, I am simply reading what the bible says, not my opinion. It seems that UR's have this problem with Hell. Well, sorry, God is the one that put Hell into the bible.

Call it what you will ... Your interpretation of scripture is that Satan will have victory over most of Gods creation. Your interpretations of scripture is "God wants to save everyone but cannot because most are just too deceived". Your interpretation of scripture is that God and Jesus are impotent. You say that is what you believe the bible teaches.

So, what do you think about God and what do you think about these scriptures?

Psalm 21:9
9 You will make them as a fiery oven in the time of your anger; The Lord will swallow them up in His wrath, And fire will devour them.


Do, you not like that God will devour people for doing wrong?

So now your interpretation is God is a human devouring fire ... This is my interpretation, the scripture itself ...

Mal 3:2
2But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.


God is alike a refiners fire who will consume/devour the evil from the earth and purify the world and all who dwell therein. Since the death Of Christ, the judgments once reserved for Israel have been made for all nations, and his fire will purify them.

And ...

1Cor 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Isaiah 66:16
16 For the Lord will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the Lord will be many.


Do, you have a problem that God will execute judgment on those whom the Lord will punish? This is in God's Word. Not our say so.

The old man must die so that the new man can be reborn ... There is a big difference between death and eternal torture ... Again concerning the fire, read above to see what purpose Gods fiery judgments exist for.

Matthew 13:41–42
The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth

Now, I am just talking about people being sent to Hell, this is God sending these people there. We are just pointing this out, and UR's says that we are calling God something that we are not. He is showing what will be done to those who offend Him.

Again, the fire is for purification, that is the reason the word Basanizo is used in revelation concerning the fiery judgment of the lake of Fire. A basanizo is a touch stone used in the process of refining metals, it is used to test the purity of the metals themselves. The fact that the new testament uses the word basanizo in connection with the lake of fire directly and definitely associates the lake of fire Judgment with the fiery judgments of Mal 3:2 ...

There is no mention of hell in that verse. You are supposed to know the Hebrew and Greek miss Shawn. You say that you study them. You should very well know then that 4 different words throughout the bible are all translated by the word hell. There are three distinct ideas being mixed together to form the myth of Hell. But you refuse to accept this fact.

Mark 9:47–48
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— where ‘ Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched

Now, as I read this, UMMM, this is talking about the person, I mean a mere worm want be in hell, the person will.

So you better start plucking out your eyes and your brain for that matter then right miss Shawn? Read Romans 7 ...

So you think God created immortal worms in Hell? So the worms are immortal and forever suffering in the fires of hell as well? You know worms experience some symblence of pain as well and would be consumed by fire ... What did the worms do to deserve eternal torture?

This scripture talks about the worm not dieing, so lets look at another scripture.

Job 25:6 how much less man is but a maggot- a son of man who is only a worm.

So now you are saying that God thinks men are worms, worse than maggots? In my opinion anyone who would imagine a fate as evil as eternal torture are as low as the worms no doubt.

Job was under condemnation and was despondent. He was waxing poetic but some people do not understand poetic license.

John 15:6

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

If someone does not abide in Christ, they will burn, fire is associated with Hades. Now how me scripture that says that God will eventually bring those out of Hell into the New Heaven and the New Earth.

Again, God is like a refiners fire, and the chaff and the wood and the hay and the stubble are burned up, but those who have only works of such stubble(withered branches) will be saved as though by fire ...

Revelation 20:14–15

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Show me scripture that says that those who are not into this book will not be cast into the lake of fire, and show me scripture that says that those in this lake, God will eventually bring them out.

Okay so now you say hades though the KJV says hell. So now you distinguish the difference between hades/sheol and tartaroo and gehenna. Double minded on this one aren't you? And the lake of fire is for the refining and purification of those who are cast therein and they will be saved thereby ...

Thank you for helping to clear that up...

[Ironmaw1776]

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist

Mark 3:29 (New American Standard Bible)

29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"--

because...why....You offended an eternal God not a God of "the age"

By that logic ... If i commit a crime against two men, one being rich and the other being poor ... The crime against the rich man should be deserving of greater retribution. Lets say the penalty of such a crime is measured in money ... I would owe more money to the rich man than i would to the poor man ... False logic ...

[Miss Shawn_2828]

Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776

Call it what you will ... Your interpretation of scripture is that Satan will have victory over most of Gods creation. Your interpretations of scripture is "God wants to save everyone but cannot because most are just too deceived". Your interpretation of scripture is that God and Jesus are impotent. You say that is what you believe the bible teaches.


So now your interpretation is God is a human devouring fire ... This is my interpretation, the scripture itself ...

Mal 3:2
2But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.


God is alike a refiners fire who will consume/devour the evil from the earth and purify the world and all who dwell therein. Since the death Of Christ, the judgments once reserved for Israel have been made for all nations, and his fire will purify them.

And ...

1Cor 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


The old man must die so that the new man can be reborn ... There is a big difference between death and eternal torture ... Again concerning the fire, read above to see what purpose Gods fiery judgments exist for.



Again, the fire is for purification, that is the reason the word Basanitos is used in revelation concerning the fiery judgment of the lake of Fire. A basanizo is a touch stone used in the process of refining metals, it is used to test the purity of the metals themselves.

There is no mention of hell in that verse. You are supposed to know the Hebrew and Greek miss Shawn. You say that you study them. You should very well no then that 4 different words throughout the bible are all translated by the word hell. There are three distinct ideas being mixed together to for the myth of Hell. But you refuse this fact.

So you better star plucking out your eyes and your brain for that matter then right miss Shawn? Read Romans 7 ...

So you think God created immortal worms in Hell? So the worms are immortal and forever suffering in the fires of hell as well? You know worms experience some symblence of pain as well and would be consumed by fire ... What did the worms do to deserve eternal torture?

So now you are saying that God thinks men are worms, worse than maggots? In my opinion anyone who would imagine a fate as evil as eternal torture are as low as the worms no doubt.

Job was under condemnation and was despondent. He was waxing poetic but some people do not understand poetic license.


Again, God is like a refiners fire, and the chaff and the wood and the hay and the stubble are burned up, but those who have only works of such stubble(withered branches) will be saved as though by fire ...

Okay so now you say hades though the KJV says hell. So now you distinguish the difference between hades and/sheol and tartaroo and gehenna. Double minded on this one aren't you? And the lake of fire is for the refining and purification of the cast therein and they will be saved thereby ...

Thank you for helping to clear that up...

NO, I am not calling men or women maggots or worms, that is what the scripture says. YOu have a problem with seeing what is in scripture and what you say, oh you think. No, the bible says.

There is difference between you trying to say what one scipture says and what it might mean for another verse.

Mal 3:2, is not the same meaning as the verse that I provided and you know it. That is your error. I can plainly read this verse and see what i means, I can't place that same meaning for another verse. I see why you are confused.

You are lying to yourself when you refuse to see what the scripture is saying.

Psalm 21:9
9 You will make them as a fiery oven in the time of your anger; The Lord will swallow them up in His wrath, And fire will devour them.

What does this scripture say, it does not say that God is purifing them. What does this verse say. It says that in God's anger, the Lord will swallow them up, in His warth, and the fire will devour them. You are merely adding what you think that this means, by trying to place a verse that has nothing to do with this verse, another error that people make.

John 15:6

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

This scripture is simple, you are adding what is not there, error.

Where in this verse it is saying that this fire is for purification. This verse is saying that they are being thrown into the fire for not abiding, you are adding the rest.

Isaiah 66:16
16 For the Lord will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the Lord will be many.

Where does it say that the old man is dieing, it doesn't you are addin it. It says that many will be slain by judgement. NOthing about the Old man as you are adding.

Anyway, I have to finish this later, I have an ariticle I have to right.

Advice, read scripture for what it says, not what you are adding.

[Thy Kingdom Come]

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist

Mark 3:29 (New American Standard Bible)

29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"--

because...why....You offended an eternal God...

The writer of Lamentations 3 also offended the eternal God, was not pardoned, was enduring the wrath of God, and yet he declared "The LORD will not cast of 'forever'" and was awaiting salvation from the LORD.

not a God of "the age"

Then why do we call him "Rock of ages"?