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Old 09-29-2009, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,824,996 times
Reputation: 496

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
Of course you don't. You believe what is not there. There is no scripture that says they are symbols of power, and there are many scriptures talking about false prophets and where they will be.
Great! I will agree. However, as I showed there is only 1 false prophet in the lake of fire. right?

So that unlucky soul shoulda repented!
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:47 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,700,862 times
Reputation: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Why does it matter? You don't think God gets what He wants? You don't think if God wants something, He won't do it? Is God really wishy washy sitting around wishing something would happen, but not able to do it? NO NO NO. Scripture tells us:

Isaiah 46:10 My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.

Job 23:13 "But he stands alone, and who can oppose him?
He does whatever he pleases.

But of course you don't think those scriptures matter. Apparently you believe God doesn't really want to save everyone or doesn't really do what He wants to do.

You realize KJV translates 1 Tim 2:4 this way:

1 Tim 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Of course I doubt this will matter to you. How much more proof do you need Miss_Shawn?

Have a good night.
The first two versed does not say that all will be saved.

I take if you don't do much studying, even scholars talk about this verse.

The bible reveals tow aspects of God's will for humankind with regard to salvation: his perfect will, which says that he wants, everyone to be saved (cf 4:10); tit 2:11), and his permissive will, which is acknowledges that he permits many to refuse to com to Christ to receive salvation ( Mat 7:21; Luk 7:30;13:34; Jn7:17; Ac7:51. You should read up on the will of God.

Will" [thelo]. God wants (desires) all men without exception to be saved. However in the case of some His will is resisted through obstinate unbelief because man has a free will and God will not force His will upon man. If he did, man would not be free; he would be a robot. Therefore, God only elects those who He foresees will choose Him in time; that is, when they hear and respond to the gospel. Man can respond to the gospel because he has a free will — free to choose good or evil because Christ merited this grace or ability for him and all mankind without exception when He died upon the cross. Consequently, no one can blame God for dying in unbelief and being condemned to hell. The responsibility lies solely with man: he could have chosen to be saved if he had so desired to choose Christ.

Exegetical Study of 1Timothy 2:4
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 4,018,450 times
Reputation: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
The first two versed does not say that all will be saved.

I take if you don't do much studying, even scholars talk about this verse.

The bible reveals tow aspects of God's will for humankind with regard to salvation: his perfect will, which says that he wants, everyone to be saved (cf 4:10); tit 2:11), and his permissive will, which is acknowledges that he permits many to refuse to com to Christ to receive salvation ( Mat 7:21; Luk 7:30;13:34; Jn7:17; Ac7:51. You should read up on the will of God.

Will" [thelo]. God wants (desires) all men without exception to be saved. However in the case of some His will is resisted through obstinate unbelief because man has a free will and God will not force His will upon man. If he did, man would not be free; he would be a robot. Therefore, God only elects those who He foresees will choose Him in time; that is, when they hear and respond to the gospel. Man can respond to the gospel because he has a free will — free to choose good or evil because Christ merited this grace or ability for him and all mankind without exception when He died upon the cross. Consequently, no one can blame God for dying in unbelief and being condemned to hell. The responsibility lies solely with man: he could have chosen to be saved if he had so desired to choose Christ.

Exegetical Study of 1Timothy 2:4
...YOU GO GIRL!!!......Excellant post!!!
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:04 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,700,862 times
Reputation: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Great! I will agree. However, as I showed there is only 1 false prophet in the lake of fire. right?

So that unlucky soul shoulda repented!
Ok, the reason that I think or believe because I find what this scripture is saying another scripture.

Revelation 19:20
But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

John again describes the false prophet by one outstanding charac: he deceived many by performing miraculous signs. Well, who is this?

2 thessalonians 2:9
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,

Matthew 24:24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. These are ministers of satan.

So, you see there is more than one false prophet. If there is only one prophet then the scriptures are lying about the rest of the false prophet that are talked about in scriptures. Who ever is a false prophet will be with the beast.

If the bible only talked about one prophet deceiving the people then I would believe it, but the bible talks about countless false prophets.

If the bible says that a false prophet will be with the beast, don't you think that any false prophet would be there also. It woudn't make sense for God to punish one, and then leave the rest.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:10 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,824,996 times
Reputation: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
Ok, the reason that I think or believe because I find what this scripture is saying another scripture.

Revelation 19:20
But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

John again describes the false prophet by one outstanding charac: he deceived many by performing miraculous signs. Well, who is this?

2 thessalonians 2:9
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,

Matthew 24:24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. These are ministers of satan.

So, you see there is more than one false prophet.
That is not what the bible says:
"The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."

The two - the false prophet and the beast.
Surely you don't mean to debate the meaning of two in this verse.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:17 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,700,862 times
Reputation: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
That is not what the bible says:
"The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."

The two - the false prophet and the beast.
Surely you don't mean to debate the meaning of two in this verse.
No, I am not argueing you must didn't understand or read the scripture.

The two are thrown into the lake, who are the them? Does it say the only two will be thrown into the lake of fire, no, it says the two of them.

But anyway, there are other false prophets.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:21 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,824,996 times
Reputation: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
The first two versed does not say that all will be saved.

I take if you don't do much studying, even scholars talk about this verse.

The bible reveals tow aspects of God's will for humankind with regard to salvation: his perfect will, which says that he wants, everyone to be saved (cf 4:10); tit 2:11), and his permissive will, which is acknowledges that he permits many to refuse to com to Christ to receive salvation ( Mat 7:21; Luk 7:30;13:34; Jn7:17; Ac7:51. You should read up on the will of God.

Will" [thelo]. God wants (desires) all men without exception to be saved. However in the case of some His will is resisted through obstinate unbelief because man has a free will and God will not force His will upon man. If he did, man would not be free; he would be a robot. Therefore, God only elects those who He foresees will choose Him in time; that is, when they hear and respond to the gospel. Man can respond to the gospel because he has a free will — free to choose good or evil because Christ merited this grace or ability for him and all mankind without exception when He died upon the cross. Consequently, no one can blame God for dying in unbelief and being condemned to hell. The responsibility lies solely with man: he could have chosen to be saved if he had so desired to choose Christ.

Exegetical Study of 1Timothy 2:4
Yeah... atonement is the first word that gets me....

People are save by grace

grace means to win favor or be pardoned.

atonement means reconcile or an agreement or reparation made for injury.

How are we saved?

I mean the author of that study states: "CHRIST DIED A SUBSTITUTIONARY-RANSOM FOR SINNERS. HE DID THIS EITHER PROVISIONALLY OR ACTUALLY, HYPOTHETICALLY OR CERTAINLY. IF PROVISIONALLY OR HYPOTHETICALLY, THEN NO ONE WILL BE SAVED IF SALVATION IS ALL OF GRACE AND NOT OF WORKS: IF ACTUALLY OR CERTAINLY, THEN SOME OF ALL MANKIND WILL BE SAVED IF SALVATION IS ALL OF GRACE AND NOT OF WORKS."

What the hill is that supposed to mean?

Christ died a ransom for sinners, the two choices:
Provisionally or actually = no one will be saved or some of all mankind will be saved.
Hypothetically or certainly = no one will be saved or some of all mankind will be saved.

Provisionally or hypothetically= no one will be saved
actually or certainly= some of all mankind will be saved

What is he trying to say?
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:26 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,700,862 times
Reputation: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Yeah... atonement is the first word that gets me....

People are save by grace

grace means to win favor or be pardoned.

atonement means reconcile or an agreement or reparation made for injury.

How are we saved?

I mean the author of that study states: "CHRIST DIED A SUBSTITUTIONARY-RANSOM FOR SINNERS. HE DID THIS EITHER PROVISIONALLY OR ACTUALLY, HYPOTHETICALLY OR CERTAINLY. IF PROVISIONALLY OR HYPOTHETICALLY, THEN NO ONE WILL BE SAVED IF SALVATION IS ALL OF GRACE AND NOT OF WORKS: IF ACTUALLY OR CERTAINLY, THEN SOME OF ALL MANKIND WILL BE SAVED IF SALVATION IS ALL OF GRACE AND NOT OF WORKS."

What the hill is that supposed to mean?

Christ died a ransom for sinners, the two choices:
Provisionally or actually = no one will be saved or some of all mankind will be saved.
Hypothetically or certainly = no one will be saved or some of all mankind will be saved.

Provisionally or hypothetically= no one will be saved
actually or certainly= some of all mankind will be saved

What is he trying to say?
He is saying stop going around in circles.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:28 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,824,996 times
Reputation: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
No, I am not argueing you must didn't understand or read the scripture.

The two are thrown into the lake, who are the them? Does it say the only two will be thrown into the lake of fire, no, it says the two of them.
So you are debating "of them".... Ok

except it's two words in the Greek - οι δύο
And you know what that means, right?

Rev 19:20 YLT
and the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who did the signs before him, in which he led astray those who did receive the mark of the beast, and those who did bow before his image; living they were cast -- the two -- to the lake of the fire, that is burning with brimstone;

You are still arguing the "two" is not just two but many...

incorrect.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:40 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,700,862 times
Reputation: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
So you are debating "of them".... Ok

except it's two words in the Greek - οι δύο
And you know what that means, right?

Rev 19:20 YLT
and the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who did the signs before him, in which he led astray those who did receive the mark of the beast, and those who did bow before his image; living they were cast -- the two -- to the lake of the fire, that is burning with brimstone;


You are still arguing the "two" is not just two but many...

incorrect.
Where are the rest of the false prophets going, will they be in heaven? I already provided the scriptures that shows.

Also how is it, that in Matthew 24:24 you have prophets who are doing the same thing that this one prophet has done. God want punish one and leave the rest who have done the same. That is why I am saying that there will be more than one in the lake of fire.

If I am a false prophet, not prophets, I will be thrown into the lake of fire. Anyone who is a false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire.

It's almost 1:00, and I am going to bed. It was fun talking with you but I have to get up early.

Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 09-29-2009 at 11:58 PM..
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