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...No matter what you have heard...
When Scripture declares something to be eternal...everlasting and forever, whatever it may be, it means just that.
The following comes from a Greek Dictionary:
* Please take note:
The term "EVERLASTING", #166, COMES FROM - #165, which IS THE SAME AS - #104.
#166. ainios; comes from #165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, everlasting, world (began)
#165. aion; from the same as #104; prop. an age; by extens. perpetuity (also past); by impl. the world; spec. (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future); - age, course, eternal, (for) ever (more), [n-] ever (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end)
#104. ah-eye'; from an obs. prim. noun (apparent meaning continued duration); "ever," by qualification regularly; by impl. earnestly; - always, ever.
Do not be lured into a false sense of security (thinking that no matter what you do in this lifetime, you will be saved from being permanently...eternally separated from God) by allowing your pride to deceive you...please do not be deceived by pride.
Obadiah 1:3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high, thus saith in his heart, "Who shall bring me down to the ground?'
Revelation 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself and lived voluptuously! That much torment and sorrow give back to her: for she saith in her heart, 'I sit a queen and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.'
*********************
The following verses that include the word "everlasting", falls under the #166 meaning...
Matthew 18:8 Therefore, if thy hand or thy foot cause thee to fall, cut them off and cast them from thee; it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into EVERLASTING FIRE.
Matthew 19:29 And everyone that hath forsaken houses or brethren or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold and shall inherit EVERLASTING LIFE.
Matthew 25:41 "Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE prepared for the devil and his angels...'
Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT, but the righteous into LIFE ETERNAL.
Luke 18:29-30 And He said unto them, "Verily, verily I say unto you, there is no man that hath left house or parents or brethren or wife or children for the Kingdom of God's sake, Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come LIFE EVERLASTING."
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have EVERLASTING LIFE."
John 3:36 "He that believeth in the Son hath EVERLASTING LIFE; and he that believeth not in the Son SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, but the wrath of God abideth on him."
John 4:14 "...but whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE."
John 5:24 "Verily, verily I say unto you, he that heareth My Word and believeth in Him that sent Me, hath EVERLASTING LIFE and shall not come into CONDEMNATION but is passed from death unto life."
John 6:27 "Labor not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto EVERLASTING LIFE, which the Son of man shall give unto you; for on Him hath God the Father sent His Son."
John 6:40 "And this is the will of Him that sent Me: that everyone who seeth the Son and believeth in Him may have EVERLASTING LIFE and I will raise him up at the last Day."
John 6:47 "Verily, verily I say unto you, he that believeth on Me hath EVERLASTING LIFE."
John 6:50 And I know that His commandment is LIFE EVERLASTING. Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.
Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold and said, "It was necessary that the Word of God should first have been spoken to you. But seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of EVERLASTING LIFE, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Romans 6:22 But now, being made free from sin and having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end EVERLASTING LIFE.
Romans 16:26 but now is made manifest, and by the Scriptures of the prophets according to the commandments of the EVERLASTING God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith...
Galatians 6:8 for he that soweth to his flesh shall also of the flesh reap CORRUPTION; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap EVERLASTING LIFE.
2 Thess. 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1:9 "These shall be punished with EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD and FROM THE GLORY OF HIS POWER."
2 Thess. 2:16 "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and God even our Father, who hath loved us and hath given us EVERLASTING consolation and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work."
1 Timothy 1:16 "Nonetheless, for this cause I obtained mercy, that in Me first Jesus Christ show forth all long suffering as a pattern for those who should hereafter believe in Him to LIFE EVERLASTING."
Hebrews 13:20 "Now the God of peace, who brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the EVERLASTING COVENANT, make you perfect in every good work to do His will, working in you that which is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."
Revelation 14:6 "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the EVERLASTING GOSPEL to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation and kindred, and tongue and people, saying with a loud voice, "Fear God and give glory to Him. for the hour of His Judgment is come. Worship Him that made heaven and earth, and the sea and the fountains of waters."
I am eternally grateful to be able to discuss this topic. It has been forever since I thought about the definition of some of these words. They will always cause contention as they are eternal.
The trials people go through sure seem everlasting, but we make it because they didn't actually last forever.
In his Immortal Love
Good Evening Phaze....
The trials and tests that we endure here on earth will never end until Jesus comes...what we do with these trials while going through them will decide where we will spend our "everlasting".
God allows us these trials to see where our hearts are...what our choices are, whether we choose to act according to God's will, in His character, or whether we choose to act according to our own will..giving in to our lusts... our sinful nature. Our choices show Him where we are, whether we walk in Spirit and in Truth, or we walk in our flesh.
As baby Christians, he doesn't expect us to get it right most of the time, but as we journey forward, we should be maturing, making less wrong choices, and more right choices. There does come a time when we should be grown and mature...proving by our actions (fruit), that we are filled with the Spirit of Christ, and through his power, we are able to make the right choices each time something difficult comes our way.
It truly is the most wonderful feeling when faced to make a difficult decision, against your flesh, and decide to do the right thing, knowing in your heart that you did what you know pleases God...as you return "home", knowing you did the right thing, God showers His Holy Spirit upon you and all you feel is joy in knowing that God knows how much you love Him...above everything else in your life.
Sorry Verna, its not quite that simple. There are many cases where eternal cannot mean eternal, so clearly there is some funny business going on with the translation of words to mean "eternal"
On words that have been translated as "incurable", "everlasting", "forever" or "eternal" , ect. in some translations.
Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude
7)--until--God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom"
Ezekiel: 16:53-55).
Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer.
30:12)-until--the Lord "will restore health" and heal
her wounds (Jer. 30:17).
The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9)-until--
Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez.
16:53).
Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no
more" (Zeph. 2:9, Jer. 25:27 --until--the Lord will
"restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jer. 49:6).
An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the
Lord's congregation "forever"-until--the tenth
generation (Deut. 23:3):
Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were
"everlasting", that is -until-- they "were shattered"
Hab. 3 3:6).
The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting"
priesthood (Ex. 40:15), that is-until-it was
superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews
7:14-18).
Many translations of the Bible inform us that God
would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings
8:13), that is,--until the Temple was destroyed.
The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant"
(Leviticus 24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the
first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Corinthians
3:11,13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).
The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without
blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be a
"perpetual"-- until-- Christ, the Lamb of God, dies
for our sins. We now have a better covenant
established on better promises (Lev. 6:12-13, Heb.
8:6-13).
God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah
"forever"-until--the Lord delivers him from the large
fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17);
Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer.
25:27)-until--the Lord will "restore the fortunes of
Egypt" (Ez. 29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam"
(Jer. 49:39).
"Moab is destroyed" (Jer. 48:4, 42)-until--the Lord
"will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer. 48:47).
Israel's judgment lasts "forever"-until--the Spirit is
poured out and God restores it (Isa. 32:13-15).
So, narrow is the way to life and few find it-until-- Christ
and His church confiscate the "strong man's" booty,
setting the captives free so God becomes all in all
(Isa. 61, Luke 11:21-22, Matt. 7:13; 16:18, 1 Cor.
15:24-28).
The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us
that a bondslave was to serve his master "forever"
(Exodus 21:6), that is,--until--his death.
The disciples of Jesus left Him, even Peter denied Him, but they were not lost forever. God knew that they would leave Him, but yet it was God's good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself.
Furthermore, if you want to understand how "aionios"/"aion" should NOT have been translated as words that mean "eternal", this article is a good place to start:
Sorry Verna, its not quite that simple. There are many cases where eternal cannot mean eternal, so clearly there is some funny business going on with the translation of words to mean "eternal"
On words that have been translated as "incurable", "everlasting", "forever" or "eternal" , ect. in some translations.
Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude
7)--until--God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom"
Ezekiel: 16:53-55).
Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer.
30:12)-until--the Lord "will restore health" and heal
her wounds (Jer. 30:17).
The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9)-until--
Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez.
16:53).
Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no
more" (Zeph. 2:9, Jer. 25:27 --until--the Lord will
"restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jer. 49:6).
An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the
Lord's congregation "forever"-until--the tenth
generation (Deut. 23:3):
Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were
"everlasting", that is -until-- they "were shattered"
Hab. 3 3:6).
The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting"
priesthood (Ex. 40:15), that is-until-it was
superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews
7:14-18).
Many translations of the Bible inform us that God
would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings
8:13), that is,--until the Temple was destroyed.
The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant"
(Leviticus 24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the
first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Corinthians
3:11,13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).
The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without
blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be a
"perpetual"-- until-- Christ, the Lamb of God, dies
for our sins. We now have a better covenant
established on better promises (Lev. 6:12-13, Heb.
8:6-13).
God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah
"forever"-until--the Lord delivers him from the large
fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17);
Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer.
25:27)-until--the Lord will "restore the fortunes of
Egypt" (Ez. 29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam"
(Jer. 49:39).
"Moab is destroyed" (Jer. 48:4, 42)-until--the Lord
"will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer. 48:47).
Israel's judgment lasts "forever"-until--the Spirit is
poured out and God restores it (Isa. 32:13-15).
So, narrow is the way to life and few find it-until-- Christ
and His church confiscate the "strong man's" booty,
setting the captives free so God becomes all in all
(Isa. 61, Luke 11:21-22, Matt. 7:13; 16:18, 1 Cor.
15:24-28).
The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us
that a bondslave was to serve his master "forever"
(Exodus 21:6), that is,--until--his death.
The disciples of Jesus left Him, even Peter denied Him, but they were not lost forever. God knew that they would leave Him, but yet it was God's good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself.
I posted a similar argument to fundamentalist in the "God's love for those never saved" thread ...
They never even try to answer the FACT that these are OBVIOUS mistranslations of the word olam, but they continue to hold fast to their false translations in spite of the truth.
Sorry Verna, its not quite that simple. There are many cases where eternal cannot mean eternal, so clearly there is some funny business going on with the translation of words to mean "eternal"
On words that have been translated as "incurable", "everlasting", "forever" or "eternal" , ect. in sometranslations.
Yes, In SOME cases, but in other "cases", (as you call them), which I choose to call "verses" of Scripture, everlasting means everlasting...everlasting means forever...everlasing means eternally...again, as proven below:
...No matter what you have heard...
When Scripture declares something to be eternal...everlasting and forever, whatever it may be, depending on the verse, it absolutely DOES mean everlasting, eternal and forever!!!
The following comes from a Greek Dictionary:
* Please take note:
The term "EVERLASTING", #166, COMES FROM - #165, which IS THE SAME AS - #104.
#166. ainios; comes from #165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, everlasting, world (began)
#165. aion; from the same as #104; prop. an age; by extens. perpetuity (also past); by impl. the world; spec. (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future); - age, course, eternal, (for) ever (more), [n-] ever (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end)
#104. ah-eye'; from an obs. prim. noun (apparent meaning continued duration); "ever," by qualification regularly; by impl. earnestly; - always, ever.
Do not be lured into a false sense of security (thinking that no matter what you do in this lifetime, you will be saved from being permanently...eternally separated from God) by allowing your pride to deceive you...please do not be deceived by pride.
Obadiah 1:3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high, thus saith in his heart, "Who shall bring me down to the ground?'
Revelation 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself and lived voluptuously! That much torment and sorrow give back to her: for she saith in her heart, 'I sit a queen and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.'
*********************
The following verses that include the word "everlasting", falls under the #166 meaning...
Matthew 18:8 Therefore, if thy hand or thy foot cause thee to fall, cut them off and cast them from thee; it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into EVERLASTING FIRE.
Matthew 19:29 And everyone that hath forsaken houses or brethren or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold and shall inherit EVERLASTING LIFE.
Matthew 25:41 "Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE prepared for the devil and his angels...'
Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT, but the righteous into LIFE ETERNAL.
Luke 18:29-30 And He said unto them, "Verily, verily I say unto you, there is no man that hath left house or parents or brethren or wife or children for the Kingdom of God's sake, Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come LIFE EVERLASTING."
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have EVERLASTING LIFE."
John 3:36 "He that believeth in the Son hath EVERLASTING LIFE; and he that believeth not in the Son SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, but the wrath of God abideth on him."
John 4:14 "...but whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE."
John 5:24 "Verily, verily I say unto you, he that heareth My Word and believeth in Him that sent Me, hath EVERLASTING LIFE and shall not come into CONDEMNATION but is passed from death unto life."
John 6:27 "Labor not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto EVERLASTING LIFE, which the Son of man shall give unto you; for on Him hath God the Father sent His Son."
John 6:40 "And this is the will of Him that sent Me: that everyone who seeth the Son and believeth in Him may have EVERLASTING LIFE and I will raise him up at the last Day."
John 6:47 "Verily, verily I say unto you, he that believeth on Me hath EVERLASTING LIFE."
John 6:50 And I know that His commandment is LIFE EVERLASTING. Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.
Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold and said, "It was necessary that the Word of God should first have been spoken to you. But seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of EVERLASTING LIFE, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Romans 6:22 But now, being made free from sin and having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end EVERLASTING LIFE.
Romans 16:26 but now is made manifest, and by the Scriptures of the prophets according to the commandments of the EVERLASTING God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith...
Galatians 6:8 for he that soweth to his flesh shall also of the flesh reap CORRUPTION; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap EVERLASTING LIFE.
2 Thess. 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1:9 "These shall be punished with EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD and FROM THE GLORY OF HIS POWER."
2 Thess. 2:16 "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and God even our Father, who hath loved us and hath given us EVERLASTING consolation and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work."
1 Timothy 1:16 "Nonetheless, for this cause I obtained mercy, that in Me first Jesus Christ show forth all long suffering as a pattern for those who should hereafter believe in Him to LIFE EVERLASTING."
Hebrews 13:20 "Now the God of peace, who brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the EVERLASTING COVENANT, make you perfect in every good work to do His will, working in you that which is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."
Revelation 14:6 "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the EVERLASTING GOSPEL to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation and kindred, and tongue and people, saying with a loud voice, "Fear God and give glory to Him. for the hour of His Judgment is come. Worship Him that made heaven and earth, and the sea and the fountains of waters."
In His EverlastingLove,
Verna.
Last edited by Verna Perry; 09-28-2009 at 07:54 PM..
Furthermore, if you want to understand how "aionios"/"aion" should NOT have been translated as words that mean "eternal...
...like Matt 25:46:
[KJV] Matt 25:46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
[YLT] Matt 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'
Matthew 25:46's "everlasting", falls under #166 below...
* Please take note:
The term "EVERLASTING", #166, COMES FROM - #165, which IS THE SAME AS - #104.
#166. ainios; comes from #165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, everlasting, world (began)
#165. aion; from the same as #104; prop. an age; by extens. perpetuity (also past); by impl. the world; spec. (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future); - age, course, eternal, (for) ever (more), [n-] ever (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end)
#104. ah-eye'; from an obs. prim. noun (apparent meaning continued duration); "ever," by qualification regularly; by impl. earnestly; - always, ever.
Do not be lured into a false sense of security (thinking that no matter what you do in this lifetime, you will be saved from being permanently...eternally separated from God) by allowing your pride to deceive you...please do not be deceived by pride.
Obadiah 1:3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high, thus saith in his heart, "Who shall bring me down to the ground?'
Revelation 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself and lived voluptuously! That much torment and sorrow give back to her: for she saith in her heart, 'I sit a queen and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.'
*********************
The following verses that include the word "everlasting", falls under the #166 meaning...
Matthew 25:41 "Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE prepared for the devil and his angels...'
Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT, but the righteous into LIFE ETERNAL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
We are NOT promised "eternal" life if we believe, but only eonian life. Eonian life is defined in John 17:3 as knowing God.
We're not talking about John 17:3 though...we're talkng about all the verses of Scripture I listed in my OP.
"...No matter what you have heard...
When Scripture declares something to be eternal...everlasting and forever, whatever it may be, it means just that."
Then in your response to me, you acknowledge that in some "cases" (verses) it does not really mean eternal.
So I guess you were mistaken in your OP. In fact how do you know those other verses really mean eternal, when you have already acknowledged that eternal does not always mean eternal, while originally claiming eternal always means eternal?!??
Can you not see the confusion caused by poor translations of these words? You realize your own pride blocks you from seeing this. Does Obadiah 1:3 only apply to everyone who disagrees with you?
By the way your greek dictionary definitions are only showing how the KJV family of bibles translates these words. Try looking at a more literal dictionary or translation like Rotherham's, Young's literal or the Concordant literal.
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