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Old 09-30-2009, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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An interesting topic as an offshoot of the many "eternal damnation" threads currently open is that of the "Book of Life."

Without using traditional views of the "book of life" is it possible to find out what exactly is written in it?

It seems that if you believe there is eternal damnation if you are not written in the book then you really should know how your name gets in it or how it is blotted from it.

I will start with the assertion that it is a book of all the lives lived as stated in
Psalm 139:16
"your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be."

It would seem that David believed it is the recording of life that God has made. This would seem to include all persons who ever lived or who will live.

But where does that leave those "not written in the book of life" in Rev 20 that are said to be cast into the lake of fire. Does that mean that only non-living things are cast into the lake of fire?
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
An interesting topic as an offshoot of the many "eternal damnation" threads currently open is that of the "Book of Life."

Without using traditional views of the "book of life" is it possible to find out what exactly is written in it?

It seems that if you believe there is eternal damnation if you are not written in the book then you really should know how your name gets in it or how it is blotted from it.

I will start with the assertion that it is a book of all the lives lived as stated in
Psalm 139:16
"your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be."

It would seem that David believed it is the recording of life that God has made. This would seem to include all persons who ever lived or who will live.

But where does that leave those "not written in the book of life" in Rev 20 that are said to be cast into the lake of fire. Does that mean that only non-living things are cast into the lake of fire?

The "book" in that verse is not the book of life. This a Psalm, full of poetry. Figuratively speaking "the book" is God's mind, to a book of rememberance of JUST David, no one else and how God sovereignly ordained David's life before he was born as God sovereignly ordains all our lives.

The book of life was wriiten before creation.
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Old 09-30-2009, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
The "book" in that verse is not the book of life. This a Psalm, full of poetry. Figuratively speaking "the book" is God's mind, to a book of rememberance of JUST David, no one else and how God sovereignly ordained David's life before he was born as God sovereignly ordains all our lives.

The book of life was wriiten before creation.
Yeah... I started the discussion and you are not continuing it so I'm not sure why you posted.

Does God need a book or do humans? Does God write books? or men write books.

I can see that God has no need for a book. However, many christians stake their lives and condemn others based on the idea that they are or are not written in the book of life.

Also, if one can effectively say that all people burning are in the lake of fire then we can say that all books relate to the books in Rev. can't we?
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Old 09-30-2009, 12:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Yeah... I started the discussion and you are not continuing it so I'm not sure why you posted.

Does God need a book or do humans? Does God write books? or men write books.

I can see that God has no need for a book. However, many christians stake their lives and condemn others based on the idea that they are or are not written in the book of life.

Also, if one can effectively say that all people burning are in the lake of fire then we can say that all books relate to the books in Rev. can't we?
What is the connection bewteen the "book" in that verse and the book of life?

Condemn others who are not written? How would we know who is in the book of life unless scripture tells us which it does, believers are written in the book of life. How is that condemning?

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 09-30-2009 at 12:18 PM..
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Old 09-30-2009, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
What is the connection bewteen the "book" in that verse and the book of life?

Condemn others who are not written? How would we know who is in the book of life unless scripture tells us which it does, believers are written in the book of life.
Exactly! How can you say believers are the only ones written in the book of life? Where is that found?

Malachi 3:16 Then those who feared the LORD spoke to one another, and the LORD gave attention and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who fear the LORD and who esteem His name.

Book of remembrance? is that synonymous with the book of life?

The Bible mentions various books, Num. 14, the Book of the Wars of the Lord, Ps 69:28 and Isa. 4:3 Book of the Living; Mal 3:16, Book of Remembrance, Rev. 20-12, Lamb's Book of Life. There are also many books in keeping the record of an individuals life. (The book of life)

So if the book of remembrance contains the names of believers, who is written in the book of life?
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Old 09-30-2009, 12:33 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,458,758 times
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Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Exactly! How can you say believers are the only ones written in the book of life? Where is that found?

Malachi 3:16 Then those who feared the LORD spoke to one another, and the LORD gave attention and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who fear the LORD and who esteem His name.

Book of remembrance? is that synonymous with the book of life?

The Bible mentions various books, Num. 14, the Book of the Wars of the Lord, Ps 69:28 and Isa. 4:3 Book of the Living; Mal 3:16, Book of Remembrance, Rev. 20-12, Lamb's Book of Life. There are also many books in keeping the record of an individuals life. (The book of life)

So if the book of remembrance contains the names of believers, who is written in the book of life?
It is not a "book of rememberance" Book is a figure of speech likens God's mind to a book of remeberance of David as He has sovereignly ordained all of us believers and unbelievers alike.
It might be synonymous with you but not scripture, they are not one in the same, not even close. One is a real book and the other isn't. Is the book of the living (Psalm 69:28) synonymous with the book of life as well?

From reading all of scripture will tell you believers, those He predestined before creation. It's called systematic theology, the same way we interpreted "the Trinity" etc...in the bible that are not "found" in the bible

(Philippians 4:3)
3 Yes, and I ask you, loyal yokefellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

(Revelation 3:5)
5 He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
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Old 09-30-2009, 12:39 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,310,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
An interesting topic as an offshoot of the many "eternal damnation" threads currently open is that of the "Book of Life."

Without using traditional views of the "book of life" is it possible to find out what exactly is written in it?

It seems that if you believe there is eternal damnation if you are not written in the book then you really should know how your name gets in it or how it is blotted from it.

I will start with the assertion that it is a book of all the lives lived as stated in
Psalm 139:16
"your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be."

It would seem that David believed it is the recording of life that God has made. This would seem to include all persons who ever lived or who will live.

But where does that leave those "not written in the book of life" in Rev 20 that are said to be cast into the lake of fire. Does that mean that only non-living things are cast into the lake of fire?
All human beings who were ever to be born as the seed of Adam were written in the Book of Life, in heaven, before the foundation of the world.
That book is the design book of the Manufacturer, and in it all the members of the human being body, all the DNA information for each body, and all the days of the life of each soul who would come forth in Adam were written before the foundation of the world. Even the numbers of hairs [follicles] on your head are written in that book, said Jesus, and not one will be lost in the regeneration of His sons.

Every soul written in that book was ordained from the foundation of the world to be a son of God born in Adam, and to be the ransomed sons of God in the adoption into the New Man name.

Jesus Christ owns that Book, and each person in that book has been atoned for by His Ransom/Atonement, once, for all.

No one can be born in Adam if they are not written in that book.

One can only get one's name blotted out of that book, but no one can get their name written in that book.

The Book of Life is first mentioned by Enoch. Enoch is the foundational revelation for all biblical doctrines, and for that reason that Enoch revealed them already, the foundations are not relaid in the OT or NT. Having once revealed the foundations, there is no repeat.
1 Enoch was banned by Rome hundreds of years after the NT Church was founded, but not banned by Ethiopian NT believers, who have always kept it in their 'canon'. The early NT Church members accepted Enoch as Scripture, and called it such, just as the righteous Jews did, as Jesus and His apostles and womb brothers also did. There was no reason to rewrite the foundational doctrines which Enoch revealed as truth from God.

Moses referred to that Book of Life in Genesis:
Exd 32:32,33
Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Judas got his name blotted out of that book of Life, as well as the Pharisees who had Jesus killed, knowing that He was the Messiah:

Psa 69:25 Let their habitation be desolate; [and] let none dwell in their tents.Psa 69:26 For they persecute [him] whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded.Psa 69:27 Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness.
Psa 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living/Book of Life, and not be written with the righteous.


Acts 1:15-And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,) Men [and] brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry....

Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Peter quotes from Psalm 69, applying it to Judas, who became a child of perdition/destruction when Satan entered him, and Peter quotes from Psalm 109, applying the same to Judas.

Luk 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
Before Judas became a child of satan, his name was written in the book of Life, in heaven.
Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Quote:
1 Enoch
[Chapter 104]
1 I swear unto you, that in heaven the angels remember you for good before the glory of the Great 2 One: and your names are written before the glory of the Great One. Be hopeful; for aforetime ye were put to shame through ill and affliction; but now ye shall shine as the lights of heaven, 3 ye shall shine and ye shall be seen, and the portals of heaven shall be opened to you. And in your cry, cry for judgement, and it shall appear to you; for all your tribulation shall be visited on the 4 rulers, and on all who helped those who plundered you. Be hopeful, and cast not away your hopes for ye shall have great joy as the angels of heaven. What shall ye be obliged to do ? Ye shall not have to hide on the day of the great judgement and ye shall not be found as sinners, and the eternal 6 judgement shall be far from you for all the generations of the world.

1 Enoch [Chapter 103]
1 Now, therefore, I swear to you, the righteous, by the glory of the Great and Honoured and 2 Mighty One in dominion, and by His greatness I swear to you.
I know a mystery
And have read the heavenly tablets,
And have seen the holy books,
And have found written therein and inscribed regarding them:
3 That all goodness and joy and glory are prepared for them,
And written down for the spirits of those who have died in righteousness,

...

[Chapter 108]
1 Another book which Enoch wrote for his son Methuselah and for those who will come after him, 2 and keep the law in the last days. Ye who have done good shall wait for those days till an end is made of those who work evil; and an end of the might of the transgressors. And wait ye indeed till sin has passed away, for their names shall be blotted out of the book of life and out of the holy books, and their seed shall be destroyed for ever, and their spirits[not the souls] shall be slain, and they shall cry and make lamentation in a place that is a chaotic wilderness, and in the fire shall they burn; for there is no earth there.
The sons of the Watchers [disembodied ,are the demons roaming earth till Jesus returns and has them gathered and thrown into the Lake of Fire] in their bodies got by fornication with daughters of Adam were never written in the book of Life and will never rise in their stolen Adam flesh bodies. They are the "rapha" of Scriptures, the dead who will never rise.

But all the sons of Adam will rise, either to the resurrection of life, or the resurrection of the second death [or else stand for judgment at His coming without ever dying in their bodies of flesh, but get cast whole in body and soul into the lake of Fire, as the goat Gentiles do, at His coming, and as those born in the Millennial reign who rebel against His authority do, at the end of the Millennium]] when they shall be cast into the lake of Fire, soul in body, minus the Adam spirit, where they will be the "never dying worms" who lose forever the opportunity to be made sons of God in the regeneration of the heavens and the earth, but are cast into the lake of Fire as rejected plants of earth, in their risen bodies; which bodies will never pass away, because Jesus died for all the seed of Adam, to atone for the first death, in Adam.

Last edited by yeshuasavedme; 09-30-2009 at 12:52 PM..
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Old 09-30-2009, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,397,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
It is not a "book of rememberance" Book is a figure of speech likens God's mind to a book of remeberance of David as He has sovereignly ordained all of us believers and unbelievers alike.
It might be synonymous with you but not scripture, they are not one in the same, not even close. One is a real book and the other isn't. Is the book of the living (Psalm 69:28) synonymous with the book of life as well?

From reading all of scripture will tell you believers, those He predestined before creation. It's called systematic theology, the same way we interpreted "the Trinity" etc...in the bible that are not "found" in the bible

(Philippians 4:3)
3 Yes, and I ask you, loyal yokefellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

(Revelation 3:5)
5 He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
Actually I asked if you thought they are synonymous which obviously you don't. You say "It might be synonymous with you but not scripture, they are not one in the same, not even close. One is a real book and the other isn't."
So which book is real and which isn't. I'm not clear on the distinction you are making.

Also in reference to your statement about predetermination:
Romans 8: 29-31 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us?

Who did God "foreknow?"
Psalm 139:13-16
13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,
16 your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be
.

God knew all His creation before they were even formed. So He foreknew all creation. All of us are written in His book.Which leads me to believe that predestination is for all not just some.

Now some say you can be blotted out of the book. So if all start in the book then some are blotted out..

Revelation 20 states all those not written.. so if all are written does it matter if they are blotted out? they are still written first.

As to your comment about being condemned. I personally have been condemned to the lake of fire many times by christians because they assume my name is not written in the book of life. So this is why I ask, who exactly is "not written in the book of life."
If it were that easy to condemn someone shouldn't we know what's in the book? or perhaps it doesn't really exist but is figurative.
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Old 09-30-2009, 04:12 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
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Psalm 69:28: “Let them [David’s enemies] be blotted out of the book of the living.” This “book of the living” should not be confused with the Lamb’s Book of Life. David is referring to earthly, physical life, not eternal life in heaven. The same is true of the “book” mentioned in Exodus 32:32-33.

God keeps good records. He knows His own, and He has set the names of His children permanently in His book.
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Old 09-30-2009, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
Psalm 69:28: “Let them [David’s enemies] be blotted out of the book of the living.” This “book of the living” should not be confused with the Lamb’s Book of Life. David is referring to earthly, physical life, not eternal life in heaven. The same is true of the “book” mentioned in Exodus 32:32-33.

God keeps good records. He knows His own, and He has set the names of His children permanently in His book.
So God's children are in His book, right?

Are His children only those who believe in a specific way?

Are His children only those who believe in Christ?

Are His children those He birthed?

How does one define His Children?

Perhaps it's not Israel because:
Leviticus 25:55
For unto me the children of Israel are servants; they are my servants whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Perhaps His children are only Israel:
Deuteronomy 14:1
Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.

Psalm 82:6
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Hosea 1:10
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Matthew 3:9
And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Perhaps only peacemakers:
Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Perhaps only those resurrected are children of God:
Luke 20:36
Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Perhaps the children of God are only those with The Spirit:
Romans 8:14;16
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God; The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

So who are the children of God who are written in the book of life and not blotted out?
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