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Old 10-01-2009, 07:45 PM
 
Location: South FL
9,444 posts, read 9,611,066 times
Reputation: 7865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgansmom00 View Post
First of all, I believe that Jesus Christ existed, was the son of God and died on the cross to save man from his sins. However, I recently got into a discussion with someone with whom I disagreed with on whether or not a person with no knowledge of the Bible or Christ could achieve salvation. The scenario was, "could a person who lived on a remote island somewhere, who lived a good, honest life (just as instructed in the words of the Bible), but who had no access to the Word of God still go to heaven?" I believe that the Bible serves as instructions on how we should live our lives according to the Holy Spirit, but I don't think God is so selective that He'd exclude those who just didn't know, but lived the life He intended. I also believe that man is falliable and since the actual Bible has suffered through so many translations and interpretations at the hands of man, I find it difficult to take literal translations. Before you get upset with me, please note again the intro at the top of the page.

Anyway, so in the course of this discussion with what turned out to be with a rather fanatical person who did not share my openmindedness, my salvation was questioned and I was called a heretic b/c my "degree in philosphy and religion taught me to defend man's continual discredit of the Bible".

So, what is it? Does it not matter that I believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit? Do I have to believe a literal interpretation of a book that was translated and influenced by the monarchy commissioning the translation and interpreted by different denominations in order to reach salvation? If so, then which version is the right version?

The person who accused me of being a heretic is supposed to be a Christian. She certainly has not convinced me of wanting to break bread with her by casting judgment on me.
You are a Christian in my eyes. The end.
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Old 10-01-2009, 07:49 PM
Status: "Self defense attacks is more than 1 person's right" (set 18 hours ago)
 
9,335 posts, read 4,716,107 times
Reputation: 1008
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
I'm confused. I thought that Christians were compared to sheep? Anyhow if it is between sheep and goats....sheep are stupid. Not a very bright animal.
You know, there is more truth in what you said than what you realize.

There is a very good reason we're compared to sheep...that because we are spiritually dumb like sheep.

Isaiah 53:6
"We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way"
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
A christian has 2 fundamental doctrines that seperates a true believer from a false one, and there are 2 main messages that contain the truth:
1. God is triune...fundamental, it's who God is
2. Jesus is God... fundamental, what the OT prophets prophesied and Jesus himself claimed to be

3. By faith, not works....main message of OT & NT
4. The Bible is Gods Word and that is all that is needed for salvation...no other outside authority ... per Jesus saying so.

So, am I or am I not a Christian?......are you?

Luke 9:26
If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

Mark 3:29
But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven....

Last edited by twin.spin; 10-01-2009 at 08:08 PM..
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Old 10-01-2009, 08:18 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,164,656 times
Reputation: 867
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
You know, there is more truth in what you said than what you realize.

There is a very good reason we're compared to sheep...that because we are spiritually dumb like sheep.

Isaiah 53:6
"We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way"
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
A christian has 2 fundamental doctrines that seperates a true believer from a false one, and there are 2 main messages that contain the truth:
1. God is triune...fundamental, it's who God is
2. Jesus is God... fundamental, what the OT prophets prophesied and Jesus himself claimed to be

3. By faith, not works....main message of OT & NT
4. The Bible is Gods Word and that is all that is needed for salvation...no other outside authority ... per Jesus saying so.

So, am I or am I not a Christian?......are you?

Luke 9:26
If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

Mark 3:29
But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven....
Mark 3:29
but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;'

You really should read a better translation. The YLT is much better than the KJV, and i can prove it ...


Jonah 2:6
KJV "I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God."

YLT "To the cuttings of mountains I have come down, The earth, her bars are behind me to the age. And Thou bringest up from the pit my life, O Jehovah my God."

So was Jonah in the whale forever? The YLT is far more accurate and literal a translation, though perhaps a little harder to read for the layman ...
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Old 10-01-2009, 08:21 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,532 posts, read 10,163,315 times
Reputation: 1533
Originally Posted by twin.spin
Quote:
A christian has 2 fundamental doctrines that seperates a true believer from a false one, and there are 2 main messages that contain the truth:
1. God is triune...fundamental, it's who God is
2. Jesus is God... fundamental, what the OT prophets prophesied and Jesus himself claimed to be

3. By faith, not works....main message of OT & NT
4. The Bible is Gods Word and that is all that is needed for salvation...no other outside authority ... per Jesus saying so.
So you are saying that as long as a Christian believes all that he can sin all he wants, because his actions are irrelevant?
That a Christian who had sinned all his life will be saved because of his 'faith', but a heathen who never heard of the teachings of Jesus but had lived like a saint will simply go straight to hell simply because he never heard of Jesus Christ?
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Old 10-01-2009, 08:32 PM
Status: "Self defense attacks is more than 1 person's right" (set 18 hours ago)
 
9,335 posts, read 4,716,107 times
Reputation: 1008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Mark 3:29
but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;'
Thanks for reminding me what Jesus said about the unbeliever.
"Never means never" imagine that, unbelief held accountable by Gods will.

Mark 4:12
so that, " 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!' "

Mark 3:29
But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven...
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Old 10-01-2009, 08:42 PM
Status: "Self defense attacks is more than 1 person's right" (set 18 hours ago)
 
9,335 posts, read 4,716,107 times
Reputation: 1008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by twin.spin So you are saying that as long as a Christian believes all that he can sin all he wants, because his actions are irrelevant??
What did God say through Paul.....

What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
That a Christian who had sinned all his life will be saved because of his 'faith', but a heathen who never heard of the teachings of Jesus but had lived like a saint will simply go straight to hell simply because he never heard of Jesus Christ?
Yup
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse
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Old 10-01-2009, 08:50 PM
Status: "Self defense attacks is more than 1 person's right" (set 18 hours ago)
 
9,335 posts, read 4,716,107 times
Reputation: 1008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Mark 3:29
but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;'

You really should read a better translation. The YLT is much better than the KJV, and i can prove it ....
All that it proves is that a leopard doesn't change it spots.... you are who you are.

The YLT is only better in your mind, I however do not have "unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words" like you seem to have.
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Old 10-01-2009, 09:16 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,532 posts, read 10,163,315 times
Reputation: 1533
Originally Posted by twin.spin
Quote:
What did God say through Paul.....

What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!
And yet many Christian clergy could be poster Childs for the saying 'do what I say and not what I do'.
I mean murder is wrong, but as long as you do it in the name of God & country you'll be forgiven.
Or child molestation is wrong; therefore until recently it was inconceivable that clergy could actually be guilty of this crime.

Quote:
Yup
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse
Of course, contrary to reality you believe that humanity originated from 1 civilisation; the Judeo-Christian civilisation, right?
Only the Bible is real, no matter how wrong it is, because the Bible is God and since God can't be wrong, the Bible can't be wrong either.
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Old 10-01-2009, 09:48 PM
 
12,478 posts, read 6,220,621 times
Reputation: 2069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by twin.spin So you are saying that as long as a Christian believes all that he can sin all he wants, because his actions are irrelevant?
That a Christian who had sinned all his life will be saved because of his 'faith', but a heathen who never heard of the teachings of Jesus but had lived like a saint will simply go straight to hell simply because he never heard of Jesus Christ?
Sin puts a believer out of fellowship with God and under the control of his old sin nature. At such times he is said to be carnal. If the carnal believer fails to name his sins to God the Father under the principle of 1 John 1:9 and thereby be restored to the status of spirituality where he is 'filled with the Spirit', and therefore under the control of the Holy Spirit; he leaves himself open to divine discipline.

Hebrews 12:6. ''FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES. AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES.''


One simple act of faith alone in Christ alone secures your eternal salvation. You can never lose it.

God will see to it that anyone who desires to know Him once that person has conceived of the existence of some sort of a supreme being, receives Gospel information so that he may make a decision for or against Christ. It doesn't matter where on earth that person may be. God spoke the universe into existence, and therefore He can and will get the Gospel to anyone who desires to know Him.
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Old 10-01-2009, 10:33 PM
Status: "Self defense attacks is more than 1 person's right" (set 18 hours ago)
 
9,335 posts, read 4,716,107 times
Reputation: 1008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by twin.spin And yet many Christian clergy could be poster Childs for the saying 'do what I say and not what I do'.
I mean murder is wrong, but as long as you do it in the name of God & country you'll be forgiven.
Or child molestation is wrong; therefore until recently it was inconceivable that clergy could actually be guilty of this crime.

Of course, contrary to reality you believe that humanity originated from 1 civilisation; the Judeo-Christian civilisation, right?
Only the Bible is real, no matter how wrong it is, because the Bible is God and since God can't be wrong, the Bible can't be wrong either.
Ah tricky...you haven't changed...

Aren't you at least a little happy to have the "anionted one"..the "savior" in your neck of the woods today? I know I am
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