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Look at this verse in the KJV:
Exodus 21:6 ... and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
Now compare in the NIV:
Exodus 21:6 ... He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.
Is it "forever" or just "for life"? Seems like it can only mean for life, since forever wouldn't make sense here.
Anyone else find this strange, or do you not care?
English is not my mothertongue, however I do understand "forever" not as endless, so lifelong or forever expresses the same, lifelong for a human is forever, forever till one dies.
However "forever" seems to mean until the Jubilee year here.
the Rashi commentary says:
[And he shall be] a servant [to you] forever: Heb. לְעוֹלָם. One might think that [לְעוֹלָם, "forever"is to be interpreted literally. Therefore, Scripture states: "[And you shall sanctify the fiftieth year and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. It will be a Jubilee for you;] and you shall return, every man to his property, and you shall return, every man to his family" (Lev. 25:10). Consequently, you learn that the term לְעוֹלָם here can mean only the period until the Jubilee.
and please no more threads about that topic, it is in vain to discuss with several people, repeating the same things again and again helps nobody.
I think it is pretty much accepted that the KJV is not the best version of the bible as I myself use the NASB. Doesn't mean there are mistakes, just that there are more suitable words that can be used.
DOES NOThowever change the context of the verses. I have used this example before. A foreigner in the U.S. who is just starting to learn english gets in a disagreement with you and says, Heh! I want no trouble, I don't have a "cow" with you....You are confused and amused but you understood he meant "beef" because it in no way changed the context of what he said.
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 09-29-2009 at 11:50 AM..
Sven, thankyou for your input on "forever" not necessarily meaning "forever" when viewed through a non-english mothertongue. Interesting point about the Jubilee.
In english, I understand the word "forever" to mean literally "without end". Of course there is the slang/exageration usage as in "this is taking forever to get done". And perhaps thats what the intended meaning was in some cases.
Regarding your other point: yes it may seem in vain to discuss this with some people, but I will never stop speaking out against falsehoods. This may be useful for others who lurk here or randomly stop by.
I think it is pretty much accepted that the KJV is not the best version of the bible as I myself use the NASB. Doesn't mean there are mistakes, just that there are more suitable words that can be used.
DOES NOT however change the context ofthe verses. I have used this example before. A foreigner in the U.S. who is just starting to learn english gets in a disagreement with you and say, Heh! I want no trouble, I don't have a "cow" with you....You are confused and amused but you understood he meant "beef" because it in no way changed the context of what he said.
I think it is pretty much accepted that the KJV is not the best version of the bible as I myself use the NASB. Doesn't mean there are mistakes, just that there are more suitable words that can be used.
I think Exodus 21:6 is quite clearly a mistake, OR "forever" is not meant to be literally interpreted as for eternity.
Quote:
DOES NOThowever change the context of the verses. I have used this example before. A foreigner in the U.S. who is just starting to learn english gets in a disagreement with you and say, Heh! I want no trouble, I don't have a "cow" with you....You are confused and amused but you understood he meant "beef" because it in no way changed the context of what he said.
Ok lets go with this context argument here for a moment.
Matt 25:41 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Now other bibles translate this as "age-abiding" or "eonian" instead of "eternal". What in the context tells you that this really means eternal?
I think Exodus 21:6 is quite clearly a mistake, OR "forever" is not meant to be literally interpreted as for eternity.
Ok lets go with this context argument here for a moment.
Matt 25:41 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Now other bibles translate this as "age-abiding" or "eonian" instead of "eternal". What in the context tells you that this really means eternal?
Exodus 21:6 (New American Standard Bible)
6then his master shall bring him to God, then he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him permanently.
Well if you are not aware of them then perhaps you should do some research. But here are some to start with:
Concordant Literal (New Testament/Old Testament)
Young's Literal
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible
The Emphatic Diaglott
Here is part of a review on Rotherham's:
This is really a fabulous work. Reading Rotherham's Bible translation is about as close as you can get to reading the scriptures in the original Hebrew and Greek, without having to actually learn those languages. For one thing, those languages have devices built into the grammar that place degress of emphasis on certain words and phrases. This gets lost in an English translation. Rotherham uses accent marks, brackets, double brackets, etc. to restore the emphasis. Now you can read in English and see what words and phrases were emphasized by the inspired writers. Rotherham also preserves the sentence structure of the original Hebrew and Greek. This makes the English sentences a little awkward, but I would say that it is still highly readable.
Most importantly, Rotherham translates words consistently throughout. Most bibles often translate the same Greek word into several different English words. Often this is done to preserve a certain doctrine. For instance, it can easily be shown that the Greek word "aion" means an age, a long but limited amount of time. Most bibles render this word as eternity, but in places where the context doesn't support such a rendering, a different English word is used, such as world, age, or course.
I think it is pretty much accepted that the KJV is not the best version of the bible as I myself use the NASB. Doesn't mean there are mistakes, just that there are more suitable words that can be used.
DOES NOThowever change the context of the verses. I have used this example before. A foreigner in the U.S. who is just starting to learn english gets in a disagreement with you and says, Heh! I want no trouble, I don't have a "cow" with you....You are confused and amused but you understood he meant "beef" because it in no way changed the context of what he said.
I am sorry Fundy but yourself and others do no do yourself any credit when you blatantly deny that the 2 words mean completely different things in the 2 translations Lego mentioned , i know you are far more intelligent to deny that one of them is mistranslated.
Look at this verse in the KJV:
Exodus 21:6 ... and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
Now compare in the NIV:
Exodus 21:6 ... He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.
Is it "forever" or just "for life"? ?
First, the KJV never used the term "Forever"
Second, the term "for ever" as used in the KJV means a very long time, and in this context it is 100% with the NIV.
The passing of time has changed the way some terms appear to us and the meanings they may carry with them, but in this case, both the KJV and the NIV are saying the very same thing.
Just with slightly different words due to the difference in time they were written in.
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