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Old 09-30-2009, 05:03 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,207,476 times
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If we love our enemies truly, and not just with lip service, then shouldn't we rejoice in the truth that God will save all men? And not only men, but even our worst enemy which are Satan and his fallen angels?

If the idea that Satan will be saved bothers you, can you say that you love your enemies? If the idea that Hitler or Stalin or any other evil man who has died is saved bothers you, can you say that you love them? If you love someone, do you ever stop loving them, even after they die?

Do you really love your enemies and hope for their salvation regardless of what you believe or have been taught that the bible teaches?

Check your hearts Christians, because i tell you this, if you do not truly love your enemies, you are not of the spirit of Christ. In truth you are no better than the unbelievers.


Matthew 5:43-48


43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47And if ye salute your brethren only(fellow believers or family in Christ), what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48Be ye therefore perfect(complete in love), even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

 
Old 09-30-2009, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,399,716 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
If we love our enemies truly, and not just with lip service, then shouldn't we rejoice in the truth that God will save all men? And not only men, but even our worst enemy which are Satan and his fallen angels?

If the idea that Satan will be saved bothers you, can you say that you love your enemies? If the idea that Hitler or Stalin or any other evil man who has died is saved bothers you, can you say that you love them? If you love someone, do you ever stop loving them, even after they die?

Do you really love your enemies and hope for their salvation regardless of what you believe or have been taught that the bible teaches?

Check your hearts Christians, because i tell you this, if you do not truly love your enemies, you are not of the spirit of Christ. In truth you are no better than the unbelievers.


Matthew 5:43-48


43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47And if ye salute your brethren only(fellow believers or family in Christ), what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48Be ye therefore perfect(complete in love), even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
I think it's the greatest thing when someone like hitler can be saved.... God is good. If anyone needed it it was Hitler.
 
Old 09-30-2009, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,449 posts, read 13,932,749 times
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"Love" and "christianity" just don't seem to fit well in the same sentence.
Moderator cut: off topic

Last edited by Miss Blue; 10-02-2009 at 08:00 AM..
 
Old 09-30-2009, 07:51 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,207,476 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
"Love" and "christianity" just don't seem to fit well in the same sentence.
Organized fundamental and orthodox Christianity which was established my the traditions of men and love just don't seem to fit well. But true Christianity and the word of reconciliation which teaches that in the end everyone will be saved and love go hand in hand. You cant get any more loving than that.

Last edited by Miss Blue; 10-02-2009 at 08:02 AM.. Reason: removed the off topic previously deleted part of Vis's post
 
Old 09-30-2009, 07:52 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,517,680 times
Reputation: 47458
not very much but i should appreciate them more i learn so much from them.
i should take a minute to say thanks, w/o u i would have never gotten this strong fast and cunning.

 
Old 09-30-2009, 08:05 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,207,476 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
not very much but i should appreciate them more i learn so much from them.
i should take a minute to say thanks, w/o u i would have never gotten this strong fast and cunning.

Ah ... Well i will say this, i love you regardless, even if i don't like you(not that i even know you personally) i love you. I believe that though now you may be cunning and wicked and proud, you will suffer the loss of your pride and be ashamed, but in humility you will receive salvation in the end.
 
Old 09-30-2009, 08:13 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,376,981 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
If we love our enemies truly, and not just with lip service, then shouldn't we rejoice in the truth that God will save all men? And not only men, but even our worst enemy which are Satan and his fallen angels?

If the idea that Satan will be saved bothers you, can you say that you love your enemies? If the idea that Hitler or Stalin or any other evil man who has died is saved bothers you, can you say that you love them? If you love someone, do you ever stop loving them, even after they die?

Do you really love your enemies and hope for their salvation regardless of what you believe or have been taught that the bible teaches?

Check your hearts Christians, because i tell you this, if you do not truly love your enemies, you are not of the spirit of Christ. In truth you are no better than the unbelievers.


Matthew 5:43-48


43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47And if ye salute your brethren only(fellow believers or family in Christ), what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48Be ye therefore perfect(complete in love), even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
For as much word studies that you have shown for the word "all", I think you need to do an in depth study of the word love. Agape, Agapao mean something on an entirely different level than phileo. Hense, this verse doesn't make much sense to some Christians, or even non Christians, but to those who actuallly know what Jesus is saying, it makes perfect sense.

"He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me."

But to those who give their very lives for the friend, stanger, or even an supposed enemy, to save them? This is Agape love. A noun. It is what we define God as, right? An essense within that gives cause to act and behave a certain way. This is not an affection, a kiss, or anything else that is physical emotion. It is way deeper, to the very nature of God Himself.

So to say, love your enemy? This is not the same as watching an axe murderer take hold of your family, and you stand there and turn the other cheek, AT ALL! It is defending your family, with your very life, when needed. It is defending your country with your very life, when needed. It is who we are, on the inside, that does not give a moment's hesitation or thought on what it is to love. It is rather God, inside, doing the work.

This is not what Hitler did. This is not what Stalin did.

Rather it is what the Allied forces did when giving their very lives for their countrymen, and the foreign people they were trying to save. That is Agape love. Hitler and Stalin will not get a free pass to eternity, unless it is fire and brimstone forever. They are sons of satan and died that way. Evil in the purest sense. You know I don't hold to this teaching, but if it was a choice between saved in heaven, and tortured for eternity?? I think they have earned the free ticket to hell.
 
Old 09-30-2009, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,399,716 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
For as much word studies that you have shown for the word "all", I think you need to do an in depth study of the word love. Agape, Agapao mean something on an entirely different level than phileo. Hense, this verse doesn't make much sense to some Christians, or even non Christians, but to those who actuallly know what Jesus is saying, it makes perfect sense.

"He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me."

But to those who give their very lives for the friend, stanger, or even an supposed enemy, to save them? This is Agape love. A noun. It is what we define God as, right? An essense within that gives cause to act and behave a certain way. This is not an affection, a kiss, or anything else that is physical emotion. It is way deeper, to the very nature of God Himself.

So to say, love your enemy? This is not the same as watching an axe murderer take hold of your family, and you stand there and turn the other cheek, AT ALL! It is defending your family, with your very life, when needed. It is defending your country with your very life, when needed. It is who we are, on the inside, that does not give a moment's hesitation or thought on what it is to love. It is rather God, inside, doing the work.

This is not what Hitler did. This is not what Stalin did.

Rather it is what the Allied forces did when giving their very lives for their countrymen, and the foreign people they were trying to save. That is Agape love. Hitler and Stalin will not get a free pass to eternity, unless it is fire and brimstone forever. They are sons of satan and died that way. Evil in the purest sense. You know I don't hold to this teaching, but if it was a choice between saved in heaven, and tortured for eternity?? I think they have earned the free ticket to hell.
Unfortunately for your theory, Jesus came to save the lost. Hitler, stalin, Manson... all lost... those are who he came to save... AND Jesus shall lose none of them. They will be saved.

It's funny because I couldn't say whether I would escape hell or whether I'd be raptured for sure when I was enslaved to that doctrine. I always had that nagging feeling that I was missing something... the feeling of fear.

Now, I can say with all of my being that I have no doubt that all are saved. Not one is left lost. I would take anyone's place in hell. It doesn't matter to me in the least what they did. If they were sentenced to unending torture, I would offer to take their place. I know that God is good and there is no punishment great enough for me to renounce his goodness, faithfulness, and lovingkindness. His will be done. He will have all men come to him. All men will do his will.

No worries, free to be happy!
 
Old 09-30-2009, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,399,716 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It would be a poor God indeed who made things so difficult or complex that very few would ever succeed, IMO.This strawman argument is repeatedly raised and rings hollow. Everyone gets to "reap what they sow." Violate God's laws and there are consequences. Violate God's law of gravity and there are consequences . . . so it always is. No punishment about it . . . consequences . . . for stupidly violating God's law. But none of it will result in a "one size fits all" eternal anything because that only speaks to our initial fate . . . NOT our ultimate fate.Our individual initial fates are unlikely to be very pleasant for the Hitler's among us . . . but I doubt the "little white liars" have much to be concerned about . . . despite the "one-size fits all" beliefs about the seriousness of our weaknesses (sins).

It's pretty sad when someone can't tell that there are huge differences among being responsible for atrocities and murders in a holocaust, being a rapist or childmolester, beariing false witness in a murder trial, sleeping with your best friend's wife, being envious of someone's wealth and lifestyle, taking a ream of copy paper from the office for your own use, or lying about the ugly expensive dress your friend bought for the party. There will be huge differences in the initial consequences atttached as well.
I agree. Some people say, "look at this verse, it says right here that if you do this you will be punished." If you steal you will be punished, if you murder you will be punished... If I stub my toe, it will hurt...LOL That's just common sense that there are consequences for our actions! It is when they start to say that everyone who lies is going to hell that bugs me. Lying is the same as murder... murder is the same as lying... ALL are covered by the blood of Christ! Does that mean that you will never experience consequences again if you don't sin... well duh! that is why you don't lie, steal, and murder! We are children of God. We need to start acting like it! Love one another, do good, live life to it's fullest, make our heavenly father proud.
 
Old 09-30-2009, 08:40 PM
 
4,512 posts, read 6,586,865 times
Reputation: 811
perhaps the op would not so much like to hear whether, but how i do so.
it can be tiresome to only appear loving while the smartness of "enemies" thrives on great popularity with your friends.

imho.
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