U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 10-02-2009, 10:58 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,554,397 times
Reputation: 4461

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Sounds good.
Im not sure what it all means, but it sounds good...and I agree with it.


While I believe it to be ultimately true, some may stop short of absolutes regarding His nature and character - I don't. Hes either sovereign or He's not, He either gets what He desires or He doesn't, etc.

But in the end, I know I'm wrong and only He is right - He can do what He wants without my permission. That, after all, is the definition of sovereignty.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-02-2009, 11:29 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,487,756 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post


Hes either sovereign or He's not, He either gets what He desires or He doesn't, etc.
ahh, I think you hint at human free will?

Our free will and God's control of this world work hand in hand..

Here is an example:
You are a passenger on a big ship at sea.
God is the Captain, only he sets the course.
However you can get up in the morning and walk around the ship in any direction you want...total freedom within a few rules.

You want to walk east?...you can.

however at the same time the ship is still headed west.

You have free will, God is in control.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2009, 12:01 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,554,397 times
Reputation: 4461
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
ahh, I think you hint at human free will?

Our free will and God's control of this world work hand in hand..

Here is an example:
You are a passenger on a big ship at sea.
God is the Captain, only he sets the course.
However you can get up in the morning and walk around the ship in any direction you want...total freedom within a few rules.

You want to walk east?...you can.

however at the same time the ship is still headed west.

You have free will, God is in control.
I agree - I use the fenced in yard analogy. Plenty of toys to hurt yourself, but you cannot go beyond a certain point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2009, 12:18 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,487,756 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
but you cannot go beyond a certain point.
In the same way of the time when a guy wants to get married.

I dont believe in the idea that god picks out only one person for a guy to marry.
I believe that God gave me the freedom to find a wife from any that would have me.
The real only rule and guidance that god gave me about picking a wife was that she had to be a good christian woman.

aside from that, I was free to date and no feel the pressure that I had to search high and low for that one girl God had in mind...

I had to marry the girl after all, not God.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2009, 12:52 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,554,397 times
Reputation: 4461
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
In the same way of the time when a guy wants to get married.

I dont believe in the idea that god picks out only one person for a guy to marry.
I believe that God gave me the freedom to find a wife from any that would have me.
The real only rule and guidance that god gave me about picking a wife was that she had to be a good christian woman.

aside from that, I was free to date and no feel the pressure that I had to search high and low for that one girl God had in mind...

I had to marry the girl after all, not God.
But what of the statement, "We were meant for each other"? Is there not one that is the best match, and He knows it? Does not God work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2009, 01:00 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,487,756 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
But what of the statement, "We were meant for each other"? Is there not one that is the best match, and He knows it? Does not God work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure?
Nope thats just some romantic hype.

The idea that God only has one person for you to marry, and that it is your duty to find that one and only person, is a myth.

Its a common reason some Christians try to justify getting a divorce, "I married the wrong person"

It's a fake out to the truth, and the truth is that humans are not all that great at staying marred.
Christian and non christian alike, we suck at it.

But the invented excuse that "God didn't want me to marry her" is an amateur attempt to dump the blame for seeking a divorce onto God.
Its a way to make the whole divorce God's idea....

I don't go for this whole concept.

I believe God has given each of us the freedom to marry who we want, as long as we conform to his few guidelines.

So even if you find yourself married to a non-Christian, that still is not a good enough reason to seek a divorce because He will still bless your marriage, for your and your children's sake.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2009, 01:32 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,554,397 times
Reputation: 4461
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Nope thats just some romantic hype.

The idea that God only has one person for you to marry, and that it is your duty to find that one and only person, is a myth.

Its a common reason some Christians try to justify getting a divorce, "I married the wrong person"

It's a fake out to the truth, and the truth is that humans are not all that great at staying marred.
Christian and non christian alike, we suck at it.

But the invented excuse that "God didn't want me to marry her" is an amateur attempt to dump the blame for seeking a divorce onto God.
Its a way to make the whole divorce God's idea....

I don't go for this whole concept.

I believe God has given each of us the freedom to marry who we want, as long as we conform to his few guidelines.

So even if you find yourself married to a non-Christian, that still is not a good enough reason to seek a divorce because He will still bless your marriage, for your and your children's sake.
In a nutshell, this is where we are differing - if you married her/him, God will either use it for His glory, or it was ultimately His will to begin with (depending on your theology.) I believe we cannot step outside of that ship/back yard.

We may suffer for a "wrong choice", but that too can be used to do a work of grace in our lives that goes beyond our small circle. It's a matter of looking at the world through His point of view, and how chaos is actually a tapestry.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2009, 02:31 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,487,756 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
In a nutshell, this is where we are differing -
Right after this sentence , I lost you.....

could you take another shot at telling me where we differ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2009, 03:58 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,554,397 times
Reputation: 4461
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Right after this sentence , I lost you.....

could you take another shot at telling me where we differ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
The idea that God only has one person for you to marry, and that it is your duty to find that one and only person, is a myth.

Its a common reason some Christians try to justify getting a divorce, "I married the wrong person"

It's a fake out to the truth, and the truth is that humans are not all that great at staying marred.
Christian and non christian alike, we suck at it.

But the invented excuse that "God didn't want me to marry her" is an amateur attempt to dump the blame for seeking a divorce onto God.
Its a way to make the whole divorce God's idea....

I don't go for this whole concept.

I believe God has given each of us the freedom to marry who we want, as long as we conform to his few guidelines.

So even if you find yourself married to a non-Christian, that still is not a good enough reason to seek a divorce because He will still bless your marriage, for your and your children's sake.
Well, to adhere to a theology of sovereignty, I would say that you couldn't marry (in error or otherwise) if God not only allowed it, but had looked past it to craft a plan using your "mistake" for your perfection and His glory.

(To ratchet down harder with that belief, you couldn't have married anyone else - it was His plan and you can't break free of it.)

It's not just an argument against free will, but siding with God's wisdom, power, self serving nature , etc. that goes so far beyond what we can conceive of His grand Plan for His creation. To say that what we do is out of His control denotes a rogue universe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2009, 04:09 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,487,756 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Well, to adhere to a theology of sovereignty,
and again,,,I lost where you think I differ with you.

Perhaps I will write my views again,,,and see if you say "Right on" or "No way"?

You get up in the morning, you lay in bed and you believe that God is telling you to get up and do something, something very important.

You sit up, swing your legs over to the side of the bed, then stop.
You don't know what leg to put on the floor first?

Is it God's will that your left foot hit the floor first?
Is it God's will that your other leg got first?
You are unsure, but deep down you know God does have a will, and that there is one foot that God wants you to put on the floor first and not the other...

But you dont know, you cant read God's mind, so there you sit and pray and pray.

You know that if you put your right foot on the floor first, and learn that God wanted you to put the other down first, that this would be a sin.

You dont want to sin...
So there you sit and pray...

and God also sits watching the clock tic, as you worry about this silly thing with all our heart.


My view of this , is that like the person we will marry, God has given us free will and the freedom we need to make up our own minds, within his over-all guidelines.

To think that God has only one girl for you to marry is as silly as thinking God wanted only one foot to hit the floor first...

Get out of bed and get to work!

Pick your own wife!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top