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Old 10-02-2009, 07:20 AM
 
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For some people, hearing the Good News about Jesus Christ, and what He did to reconcile men to His Father by way of sacrifice, is for some who believe,,,Good News. For others, it is not. The bible talks about this good news repeatedy, but really, what IS Good News?

Is news something that must be read, or heard before it can be called news? I think to the person receiving it, the answer would be yes. To the person who has never heard? They don't even know there is news at all.

Think of it this way.

A man was living on a mountain. He was a hermit, living alone, and isolated. But he was happy. He grew his own food, hunted his own meat, and enjoyed what life has to offer, as far as he was concerned.

In the city, they made a sad discovery. They found out that the sun was going to send a flare off, that would raise the levels of radiation to the point of disater for all living creatures on land. In other words, the planet is facing doom.

But, in a labortory a discovery was made. They found out that you could soak your body in this new liquid, and it would prevent the radiation from seeping into your pores. It would just bounce off. So the news papers proclaim that salvation is here. It is GOOD NEWS for the WHOLE world, and that ALL men can be saved.

Sadly, they realize that most of the wildlife would perish, because of them being "wild beasts". But the food can be saved, as they would herd them through the bath.

So the word goes out. Millions are soaked through and through. Many believe this is a trick, and refuse to take their bath. Many think this is a way for the devil to secretly get them to submit to them, and they also refuse to take their bath.

When the time comes, and the flare reaches the earth,,,those who took the bath are glowing, as the radiation bounces off their skin. Anyone else, including the man who lived on the mountain, are lost. They die horrible deaths, due to the effects of radiation poisoning.


So when is good news, not any news? Must we hear it before it can be called news at all? For those who have heard it, it is news. Some will heed it, and others will not, but it doesn't take away frm the fact that the news was delivered. For those who have yet to hear it? It is not any news at all. They haven't heard the bad news about the flare, nor the good news about the new liquid. They just live happy, until the end comes.

I know many will draw paralles with religion. I think that is good. Also with doctrines. I think that is also good. I was just led to write this, so take out of it what you will. The question still remains:

Is Good News, actually news, for those who did not hear?
Upon hearing it, is it still Good News, even though many will not heed it?
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Old 10-02-2009, 07:54 AM
 
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The movie "I am legend" goes along with this. A scientist believes to have found a cure for cancer and millions get the shot and then it all goes wrong and turns most of humanity into zombies.

But then one man never gives up and sacrifices his life and humanity gets a cure and many do not even know it yet and based upon the characters in the movie, they would not willingly line up and accept the cure. So considering their "condition" would it be immoral to force the cure upon them? Nope.

However these examples can be tied into religion, there should at least be one thing kept in mind. Our humanity in relation to making a true parallel to things spiritual is limited.
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Old 10-02-2009, 08:06 AM
 
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Hotin & Phazelwood, these are both interesting analogies.

(WARNING SPOILER ALERT FOR THE MOVIE: I AM LEGEND)

I think where they fail in comparing to scripture is they don't take into account God's omniscient, omnipresent nature.

So in both examples (radiation flare/zombie cancer), it doesn't quite work because the one providing the cure is not the one who started the whole thing off.

God set everything in motion, including the fact that He knew we would need a "cure" because He subjected us to futility and vanity so that we would be in bondage to our sinful carnal nature. He does this so we will learn and He takes responsibility for this by sending His son to be the sacrifice for all sin in the world.

The analogies fail because the ones who create the cure (the scientists or Will Smith) can only do the best they can to get the cure out, and they didn't even plan for the "problem" to happen in the first place.

JMHO.

There are parts of the analogy that apply though, especially Will Smith's character sacrificing himself so mankind can live, though he cannot guarantee that anyone would actually be saved by his sacrifice; there is still no greater sacrifice than to give up your life for a fellow man.

Peace.
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Old 10-02-2009, 08:13 AM
 
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I agree legoman, that is why I pointed out that human examples always fail to give the complete picture of the spiritual nature of things.
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Old 10-02-2009, 08:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
The movie "I am legend" goes along with this. A scientist believes to have found a cure for cancer and millions get the shot and then it all goes wrong and turns most of humanity into zombies.

But then one man never gives up and sacrifices his life and humanity gets a cure and many do not even know it yet and based upon the characters in the movie, they would not willingly line up and accept the cure. So considering their "condition" would it be immoral to force the cure upon them? Nope.

However these examples can be tied into religion, there should at least be one thing kept in mind. Our humanity in relation to making a true parallel to things spiritual is limited.
And I agree with this. But the premise was the Good News.

How do those who refuse to take the bath to save them from radiation poisoning based upon some preconceived notion that it is the work of the devil differ from the man who lived on the mountain.

Do you see where I am going with this?

If the news is that. News. Then those who refuse the news, and the partaking of the bath, are basically committing suicide. They refuse to be saved, period. And they end up dying.

While at the same time, the man on the mountain never heard the news, even though he lived a happy fruitful life. And while he still died having never heard the news, he still enjoyed his life until the end, as the saving news was never made available to him.

so I suppose my question would be this.

who was better off? Having the choice, by having heard the good news, or not having heard it at all, and took the end when it came without remorse or consequence?

Sometimes I think we as Christians are no different than the Pharasees. We end up making men twice the sons of hell, because we ourselves don't even understand the good news.
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Old 10-02-2009, 08:20 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,416,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
And I agree with this. But the premise was the Good News.

How do those who refuse to take the bath to save them from radiation poisoning based upon some preconceived notion that it is the work of the devil differ from the man who lived on the mountain.

Do you see where I am going with this?

If the news is that. News. Then those who refuse the news, and the partaking of the bath, are basically committing suicide. They refuse to be saved, period. And they end up dying.

While at the same time, the man on the mountain never heard the news, even though he lived a happy fruitful life. And while he still died having never heard the news, he still enjoyed his life until the end, as the saving news was never made available to him.
How about this. While the man may live a happy life never hearing the good news, he is at least implicitly able to determine that there is some bad news: one day he will die. He can determine this himself by observing others (if he has contact with anyone) or simply observing nature. All things die and decay eventually.

So he has determined that ultimately he will die... this is bad news. He may wonder to himself, is there a solution to this? Is there good news? So without actually hearing the good news, he may wonder if there is good news anywhere that will help him.
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Old 10-02-2009, 08:24 AM
 
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Yeah, Hot, I see where your going with it. Perhaps good news is not dependant upon hearing it, we only come to know it in some way.

The old analogy "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, did it still make a sound?"

The answer is yes, our presence was not required, the tree still did all the things required to make a sound. the fact that we were not there only means that sound had no effect on us that we could perceive and observe.

But then what if someone was near the tree when it fell but they were deaf. Is it their fault that they did not accept that the tree made a sound?
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Old 10-02-2009, 08:54 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,378,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
How about this. While the man may live a happy life never hearing the good news, he is at least implicitly able to determine that there is some bad news: one day he will die. He can determine this himself by observing others (if he has contact with anyone) or simply observing nature. All things die and decay eventually.

So he has determined that ultimately he will die... this is bad news. He may wonder to himself, is there a solution to this? Is there good news? So without actually hearing the good news, he may wonder if there is good news anywhere that will help him.
I can see this. But the man, knowing he would eventually die, was not truly concerned about it. It is a fact of nature, that all things must die. How soon we die, is dependant largely upon us. What we eat, where we live, how we act, etc.

This man decided the best course for his life was to live it in seclusion. Having done what he was able to do, he still could not control the actions of the sun no more so than if a bear came upon him suddenly and killed him. He accepted that death was a part of life. The decisions he made pertained to life itself.

At the same time, this "news" that was available to the world, to take this protective bath, did not reach his ears. There was no choice to be made about it. So, by reason of deduction, he is not at fault for having never heard the news, outside of living a life of seclusion. If even that can be called a fault.

But for those who did hear the news, what excuse do they have for their deaths? They did not believe the news? Maybe they did and still refused because of some preconceived religious belief? Maybe they thought that it would be a takeover of some rights? Who knows. But, regardless, they heard the Good News, and did not heed it.

So, really. They are without excuse, and die FOR/BECAUSE their beliefs, even after hearing the Good News.

Kinda like the joke about the man on the roof knowing he was going to drown from the flood. He prayed and prayed for God to rescue him. First a boat came, and the man said he was waiting on God. Then a helecopter came, and the man waved them off, because he was waiting on God. When the water finally comes and drowns him, he then asks God why He did not help him. God says, I sent you a boat and a plane, so why do you question why I did not send you help? Again, without excuse.

Our precoonceived notions about who God is, and what His Son did, sometimes get in the way of thhe Good News. I guess that was the purpose of this thread. Those who hear it and ignore it, really, are without excuse, right? Those who lead people the wrong way, are worse off than the persons hearing it from the wrong light, right? Faith and Love are what drives us closer to God, no matter what doctrines we have heard.

We have studied and studied. Doctrines upon doctrines. Line upon line, precept upon precept. Are we, after ALL this knowledge, any closer to God? Or sometimes should we not be as children, and just come to Him, and let Him lead, while we follow?
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Old 10-02-2009, 09:50 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,692,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
I can see this. But the man, knowing he would eventually die, was not truly concerned about it. It is a fact of nature, that all things must die. How soon we die, is dependant largely upon us. What we eat, where we live, how we act, etc.

This man decided the best course for his life was to live it in seclusion. Having done what he was able to do, he still could not control the actions of the sun no more so than if a bear came upon him suddenly and killed him. He accepted that death was a part of life. The decisions he made pertained to life itself.

At the same time, this "news" that was available to the world, to take this protective bath, did not reach his ears. There was no choice to be made about it. So, by reason of deduction, he is not at fault for having never heard the news, outside of living a life of seclusion. If even that can be called a fault.

But for those who did hear the news, what excuse do they have for their deaths? They did not believe the news? Maybe they did and still refused because of some preconceived religious belief? Maybe they thought that it would be a takeover of some rights? Who knows. But, regardless, they heard the Good News, and did not heed it.

So, really. They are without excuse, and die FOR/BECAUSE their beliefs, even after hearing the Good News.

Kinda like the joke about the man on the roof knowing he was going to drown from the flood. He prayed and prayed for God to rescue him. First a boat came, and the man said he was waiting on God. Then a helecopter came, and the man waved them off, because he was waiting on God. When the water finally comes and drowns him, he then asks God why He did not help him. God says, I sent you a boat and a plane, so why do you question why I did not send you help? Again, without excuse.

Our precoonceived notions about who God is, and what His Son did, sometimes get in the way of thhe Good News. I guess that was the purpose of this thread. Those who hear it and ignore it, really, are without excuse, right? Those who lead people the wrong way, are worse off than the persons hearing it from the wrong light, right? Faith and Love are what drives us closer to God, no matter what doctrines we have heard.

We have studied and studied. Doctrines upon doctrines. Line upon line, precept upon precept. Are we, after ALL this knowledge, any closer to God? Or sometimes should we not be as children, and just come to Him, and let Him lead, while we follow?
Yes the Joke is a funny one, yet the premise of the joke is that he is in heaven.
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