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Old 10-04-2009, 04:54 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Look to the prophecies that have thus far been fulfilled for your answer. They are sufficient in and of themselves to act as proof that the Scriptures are indeed the very Word of God.
Again, the same book that makes the prophecies provide the fulfillments. How much 'proof' could that be?
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Old 10-04-2009, 05:10 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,642,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Again, the same book that makes the prophecies provide the fulfillments. How much 'proof' could that be?
Look to history for the fulfillment of those prophecies that have been fulfulled, and then gain confidence in those prophecies that are yet future.

Research Tyre. Investigate the two dispersions of Israel. There are many more prophecies that have been historically fulfilled.
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Old 10-04-2009, 05:10 PM
 
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What prophecies? Jesus said that in this generation all these things will occur, and he died and so have a hundred generations and he has not come again and nothing he foretold has come to pass.
By your definition of fulfillment, Nostradamus has been completely accurate. You twist things to fit your perception of prophecy or you count things that occurred in the bible as fulfillment which is a classic circular reasoning, or Begging the question. Then for good measure you throw in the air of "condescension you should see that this very apparent" when it is not at all apparent. It is in fact nonexistent.

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Old 10-04-2009, 05:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by allistercrowly View Post
What prophecies? Jesus said that in this generation all these things will occur, and he died and so have a hundred generations and he has not come again and nothing he foretold has come to pass.
By your definition of fulfillment, Nostradamus has been completely accurate. You twist things to fit your perception of prophecy or you count things that occurred in the bible as fulfillment which is a classic circular reasoning, or Begging the question. Then for good measure you throw in the air of "condescension you should see that this very apparent" when it is not at all apparent. It is in fact nonexistent.

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See what history has to say about the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies that were later fulfilled in Old Testament times. Prophecies concerning Tyre, Israel being dispersed, the destruction of the Babylonian Empire.

The prophecies that remain to be fulfilled will be fulfilled in accordance with God's timetable, not yours.

When Christ said ''this generation,'' He was not referring to those to whom He was speaking, but to the tribulational generation that would see the signs of His second coming.

Neither Nostradamus or Edgar Cayce were prophets. There are no prophets in the Church age, since shortly after the beginning of the church age.

These things are very clear, very apparent to those who are not looking with critical eyes. Research, investigate.

If you feel that I am being condescending, what is that to me?
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Old 10-04-2009, 05:34 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,711,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Look to history for the fulfillment of those prophecies that have been fulfulled, and then gain confidence in those prophecies that are yet future.

Research Tyre. Investigate the two dispersions of Israel. There are many more prophecies that have been historically fulfilled.
The Tyre prophecy is your evidence? Go further and check on Ezekiel's Egypt prophecy while you're at Tyre. That flopped spectacularly. As for the first dispersion, wasn't the "prophecy" and fulfillment written WHILE the Jews were IN said dispersion?

What I am getting at is, Mike, I'm not so sure it is far-fetched to believe the book (bible) was not written like a big screen apocalyptic movie where the screen writer writes beginning, middle and end with prediction and fulfillment all included. He can sit here in the 21st century and write a screen play that encompasses a time frame from say, 400 years ago, where a hermit makes a prophecy and then have it "fulfill" in 2004.
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Old 10-04-2009, 05:37 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
When Christ said ''this generation,'' He was not referring to those to whom He was speaking, but to the tribulational generation that would see the signs of His second coming.
Why waste breath speaking to an audience that nothing you say, or much of what you say, does NOT pertain to them?
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Old 10-04-2009, 06:35 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,642,764 times
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Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
The Tyre prophecy is your evidence? Go further and check on Ezekiel's Egypt prophecy while you're at Tyre. That flopped spectacularly. As for the first dispersion, wasn't the "prophecy" and fulfillment written WHILE the Jews were IN said dispersion?

What I am getting at is, Mike, I'm not so sure it is far-fetched to believe the book (bible) was not written like a big screen apocalyptic movie where the screen writer writes beginning, middle and end with prediction and fulfillment all included. He can sit here in the 21st century and write a screen play that encompasses a time frame from say, 400 years ago, where a hermit makes a prophecy and then have it "fulfill" in 2004.
The prophecy concerning Egypt is yet future as is the yet future destruction of both the city of Babylon and the Babylonian religious system in (Rev. 17 and 18) and many other prophecies. Do not superimpose your limited amount of time on this earth relative to the extent of human history on the eternal workings of God. Everything will happen at the appointed time as God determines it.

The books of the Bible were written over a period of thousands of years with many different human authors who in many cases(and here Im referring to the Old Testament) didn't know each other. The books of the Bible have a common theme running through them. The nature of the Bible reveals the fingerprints of God all over it.
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Old 10-04-2009, 06:51 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,642,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Why waste breath speaking to an audience that nothing you say, or much of what you say, does NOT pertain to them?
What Christ spoke has been recorded in the Bible. The Bible will remain available for all generations. It will never be destroyed. What Christ said to the Jews of His time will be pertinant to those who are living during the Tribulation. And what Christ revealed to the Jews He intended for all to know. Additionally, He wanted them to know the events that would take place in the future pertaining to the nation of Israel.

God had made promises to Abraham that were eternal in nature. Promises pertaining to the land that would belong to Israel for all eternity.

God made a promise to David that he would have a descendent who would sit on David's throne forever. (Jesus Christ)

What Christ said was to give them hope of Israels future.
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Old 10-04-2009, 08:01 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The prophecy concerning Egypt is yet future..
Well Mike that HAS to be your answer because the prophecy NEVER came to pass despite the obvious early context giving the clear indication this prophecy was supposed to have been fulfilled in THAT time. Since it never happened, the fulfillment period, as with NT prophecies, has to be pushed forward into an ever changing future.

Quote:
...as is the yet future destruction of both the city of Babylon and the Babylonian religious system in (Rev. 17 and 18) and many other prophecies.
This is a whole other can of worms I'll leave alone for the moment.

Quote:
Do not superimpose your limited amount of time on this earth relative to the extent of human history on the eternal workings of God. Everything will happen at the appointed time as God determines it.
There's no amount of reason or explanation can trump this "faith" reply so I won't even try.

Quote:
The books of the Bible were written over a period of thousands of years with many different human authors who in many cases(and here Im referring to the Old Testament) didn't know each other. The books of the Bible have a common theme running through them. The nature of the Bible reveals the fingerprints of God all over it.
This is a standard, cookie cutter response from the realm of Christian apologetics. I know; I used to use it also. Looking back and saying it in my head it just sounds mindless regurgitation.

What evidence do you have that the Bible was written over thousands of years (at least the Old Testament) as opposed to say, oral traditions that were handed down, compiled, edited and put together for consumption? I point this out because there solid internal evidence here and there that the portions of the Old Testament was either written long after the contents being detailed OR edited. If this is the case, then how can we be entirely certain that what we read in the Bible (the Old Testament), being written after the fact, did not incorporate "creative license" in the final product to fit a certain agenda.
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Old 10-04-2009, 08:11 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,711,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
What Christ spoke has been recorded in the Bible. The Bible will remain available for all generations. It will never be destroyed.
This is a VERY bold and absolute claim based solely on faith. How can I refute that?

Quote:
What Christ said to the Jews of His time will be pertinant to those who are living during the Tribulation.
Which goes back to my original question. Why tell 'the Jews of his time' if what he says has nothing to do with them? Why confuse them with information (without qualifications/disclaimers up front) that does not pertain to them. Is this why we have evidence of the early Christians selling all and becoming a socialist community awaiting the return of Jesus?

Quote:
And what Christ revealed to the Jews He intended for all to know. Additionally, He wanted them to know the events that would take place in the future pertaining to the nation of Israel.
Well, if you say so, I guess it must be so.

Quote:
God had made promises to Abraham that were eternal in nature. Promises pertaining to the land that would belong to Israel for all eternity.
Any chance you would believe your opinion is subjective?

Quote:
God made a promise to David that he would have a descendent who would sit on David's throne forever. (Jesus Christ)
See last response.
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