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Old 05-05-2011, 08:13 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,811,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Well, there is no need to deny it, you can believe that Jesus is an utter and pathetic failure if you like, Mike.
And there is no dening it also, Jesus is going to knock you off his Judgement seat.

Then he's going to damn all the unbelievers to hell in spite of your arrogance.

 
Old 05-05-2011, 08:14 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,642,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Why, Mike, does God want to make them suffer? What POSSIBLE need could the Lord of Lords, the King of Kings, have for petty human suffering? The fact you believe the Lord could Will it, and thus enjoy it, truly disturbs me.

If he doesn't enjoy it then is he truly the all-loving all-powerful God we believe him to be? Can you honestly say he is, without twisting logic or meaning?
Did I say that God will enjoy the fact that those in the lake of fire will suffer forever? No I did not.

Does the Bible say that God will enjoy the fact that those in the lake of fire will suffer? Not it does not.

But the Bible does say that those who do not receive Christ as Savior will spend eternity in the lake of fire. And that they will be tormented forever.

Eternal life is more than just duration. It is also quality of life. Those who believe in Jesus Christ will live forever in the presence of God in perfect happiness.

Since man's soul is immortal, the unbeliever, having been resurrected will, both body and soul, reside forever in the lake of fire separated from God . Since he will be separated from God there will be no quality of life. There will be no happiness. There will be no peace of mind. There will be great anquish and sorrow. There will be gnashing of teeth. There will be the constant memories of all the times he had the opportunity to receive Christ as Savior but refused to. There will be the overpowering sense of hopelessness and despair. There will be the everpresent realization of his lost condition. And he will be in the presence of others who are in the same condition that he is. Much of the torment will be internal. To what extent there will be external torment, who can say? However, the imagery brought to bear by Jesus' use of Gehenna suggests a place of actual fire.

God has no desire that anyone go to the lake of fire. They go there because they refuse the offer of salvation that God offers them based on the work of Jesus Christ on the cross. Therefore God has no choice but to sentence them to the lake of fire.

In rejecting Christ as Savior, the unbeliever never receives the Righteousness of God and therefore must stand on his own righteousness. The basis for eternal condemnation is not sin because sin was judged at the cross. The unbeliever remains under condemnation because his righteousness cannot satisfy God's perfect Righteousness.
 
Old 05-05-2011, 08:20 PM
 
37,500 posts, read 25,232,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Why, Mike, does God want to make them suffer? What POSSIBLE need could the Lord of Lords, the King of Kings, have for petty human suffering? The fact you believe the Lord could Will it, and thus enjoy it, truly disturbs me.

If he doesn't enjoy it then is he truly the all-loving all-powerful God we believe him to be? Can you honestly say he is, without twisting logic or meaning?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
But the Bible does say that those who do not receive Christ as Savior will spend eternity in the lake of fire. And that they will be tormented forever.

Eternal life is more than just duration. It is also quality of life. Those who believe in Jesus Christ will live forever in the presence of God in perfect happiness.

Since man's soul is immortal, the unbeliever, having been resurrected will, both body and soul, reside forever in the lake of fire separated from God . Since he will be separated from God there will be no quality of life. There will be no happiness. There will be no peace of mind. There will be great anquish and sorrow. There will be gnashing of teeth. There will be the constant memories of all the times he had the opportunity to receive Christ as Savior but refused to. There will be the overpowering sense of hopelessness and despair. There will be the everpresent realization of his lost condition. And he will be in the presence of others who are in the same condition that he is. Much of the torment will be internal. To what extent there will be external torment, who can say?

God has no desire that anyone go to the lake of fire. They go there because they refuse the offer of salvation that God offers them based on the work of Jesus Christ on the cross. Therefore God has no choice but to sentence them to the lake of fire.

In rejecting Christ as Savior, the unbeliever never receives the Righteousness of God and therefore must stand on his own righteousness. The basis for eternal condemnation is not sin because sin was judged at the cross. The unbeliever remains under condemnation because his righteousness cannot satisfy God's perfect Righteousness.
Just ANSWER the question, Mike . . . stop dancing around it with irrelevantModerator cut: deleted What POSSIBLE good does it do for our ALMIGHTY God to have His creations suffer forever????Forget whose fault . . . WHY? WHY? WHY?

Last edited by june 7th; 05-06-2011 at 10:30 AM..
 
Old 05-05-2011, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,286,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Now it's been changed to never ending unquenchable vengeance.
Against whom? There is only a new creation and old creation, and He is at peace with the new creation through Christ. The old creation has been long gone....
 
Old 05-05-2011, 08:26 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,642,764 times
Reputation: 7408
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Just ANSWER the question, Mike . . . stop dancing around it with irrelevant BS. What POSSIBLE good does it do for our ALMIGHTY God to have His creations suffer forever????Forget whose fault . . . WHY? WHY? WHY?
I did answer it. I don't dance around questions. That you are incapable of understanding the issue is no surprise.
 
Old 05-05-2011, 08:35 PM
 
17,697 posts, read 8,870,974 times
Reputation: 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
And there is no denying it also, Jesus is going to knock you off his Judgment seat.
Then he's going to damn all the unbelievers to hell in spite of your arrogance.
The only thing that will be the judge is the truth:

"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the full knowledge of the truth."

Contrary to yours,
fifteen cent worth's, or the choirs beliefs and judgments that rest on grounds insufficient to produce complete victory.
 
Old 05-05-2011, 08:51 PM
 
Location: west mich
5,740 posts, read 5,656,946 times
Reputation: 2108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Did I say that God will enjoy the fact that those in the lake of fire will suffer forever? No I did not.
Does the Bible say that God will enjoy the fact that those in the lake of fire will suffer? Not it does not.
But the Bible does say that those who do not receive Christ as Savior will spend eternity in the lake of fire. And that they will be tormented forever.
Wow, busy thread...
Christ or Christ's teachings? Would Christ demand worship for himself, or would he just want people to follow his teachings? This sounds more selfless.
Is this the meaning of "Christ as Savior"?
Why is the following of His teachings not enough?
 
Old 05-05-2011, 08:53 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,811,723 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
The only thing that will be the judge is the truth:

"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the full knowledge of the truth."

Contrary to yours, fifteen cent worth's, or the choirs beliefs and judgments that rest on grounds insufficient to produce complete victory.
There will be a complete victory when Jesus will send those who are evil to hell ... and that choir will weep and morn
(and they will be penny less).
 
Old 05-05-2011, 09:09 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,198,849 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
There will be a complete victory when Jesus will send those who are evil to hell ... and that choir will weep and morn
(and they will be penny less).
Believe whatever makes you feel better about yourself ...
 
Old 05-05-2011, 09:18 PM
 
37,500 posts, read 25,232,088 times
Reputation: 5855
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
There will be a complete victory when Jesus will send those who are evil to hell ... and that choir will weep and morn
(and they will be penny less).
How can you possibly believe such evil will be done by our loving Father? The darkness of soul that is revealed by such expectations is depressing to contemplate.
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