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Old 10-06-2009, 09:49 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,408,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Careful now... God must be a liar then if he changed his mind? Happened in the OT all the time. See (Jer. 18:5-10; Joel 2:13; Jon.
4:2; Exod. 32:14; Amos 7:3, 6; Jon. 3:10; or might change it if need be Jer. 26:3; Joel 2:14; Jon. 3:9).

So if you are saved from hell, where in the bible is the criteria to be saved? Since God can and does change his mind, who can say for sure if they are saved from burning in hell?

Can you say that you are assured to circumvent burning torture or perhaps you "hope" you will but it's up to God?
Kat, I think this is getting off topic, but we need to be careful here.

God doesn't change his mind. Circumstances may occur that make it appear that God changes his mind, but it is really man that is changing his mind. God knows all, the beginning from the end. Why would He need to change his mind since He already knows how its all going to work out?

Look at Jer 18:8 for example. God warns that if a nation doesn't repent, then He will inflict disaster on that nation. But if the nation does repent, then He will relent of the disaster He planned.

Is God really changing His mind in Jer 18:8? God already knows beginning to end, He knows what that nation will do, and He already knows what they will choose. God is simply giving a warning of what will happen if they don't repent. So the nation repents and the disaster does not happen.

Who really changed their mind here? The people changed their mind. God changes people's minds. NOT the other way around.
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
"Eternal life" is Jesus Christ. When Jesus is received, instantly the believer is given "eternal life" as Jesus Christ dwells in them but will be fully maniefested after his or her physical death.
Jesus tell us exactly what "eternal life" actually is:

Jn 17:3"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

I think our concept of eternal life is not the same as what Jesus says it actually is.
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:51 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,819,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
So by your actions you are saved or condemned?

Doesn't it state that salvation cannot be obtained through works?

How can your salvation depend on works, then?
Or your condemnation to hell depend on works?

If you can be condemned in this life... what are you condemned to?
Unbelievers kat,...... unbelievers. They are condemned already, to hell.
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
not God were saved from..rather God's wrath were saved from

Romans 2:5
"But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed."
So God has no control over His own wrath? Its not God punishing or judging people, but its God's wrath that is punishing or judging people?

God's wrath ends. God is not angry forever, His wrath will be completed one day. To get back on topic, we are not saved from "wrath", we are saved from the sin and futility that we have been subjected to.

Romans 8:20
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope


What do you make of this verse twin.spin. Why were we subjected to vanity?
Vanity is a SIN, Romans 8:20 quite clearly tells us God subjected us to SIN. Why? Simply so He could show His wrath forever and punish people eternally?
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
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Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Romans 8:20
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope

What do you make of this verse twin.spin. Why were we subjected to vanity? Vanity is a SIN, Romans 8:20 quite clearly tells us God subjected us to SIN. Why? Simply so He could show His wrath forever and punish people eternally?
OUCH!!! It will be very difficult to explain that one in regards to ET
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:01 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,455,222 times
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Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Jesus tell us exactly what "eternal life" actually is:

Jn 17:3"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

I think our concept of eternal life is not the same as what Jesus says it actually is.
I don't see the difference? Eternal life not only means eternal quantity but divine quality of life. It means "life of the ages to come" and refers to the ressurection and heavenly existence in perfect glory and holiness. This life for believers in the Lord Jesus is experienced before heaven is reached. "Eternal life" is in essence nothing less than participation in the eternal life of the living word, Jesus Christ. It is the life o God in every believer, yet not fully maniefest until the ressurection.
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:06 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,455,222 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post

Romans 8:20
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope

What do you make of this verse twin.spin. Why were we subjected to vanity? Vanity is a SIN, Romans 8:20 quite clearly tells us God subjected us to SIN. Why? Simply so He could show His wrath forever and punish people eternally?
I have, subjected to "futility" not vanity. Futility means the inability to achieve a goal or purpose and because of man's sin, God cursed the physical universe, no part of creation fulfills God's original purpose.
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:06 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,819,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
You know this is not true twin.spin, otherwise we are all condemned to hell because we all did not believe at one point.
Why would you say this isn't true, when that is what exactly the situation every one faced. You're not concieved a believer.

But that's for a different OP...
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,120,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I don't see the difference? Eternal life not only means eternal quantity but divine quality of life. It means "life of the ages to come" and refers to the ressurection and heavenly existence in perfect glory and holiness. This life for believers in the Lord Jesus is experienced before heaven is reached. "Eternal life" is in essence nothing less than participation in the eternal life of the living word, Jesus Christ. It is the life o God in every believer, yet not fully maniefest until the ressurection.
Eternal life is knowing and having a relationship with God
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:10 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,455,222 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Eternal life is knowing and having a relationship with God
I agree and how does one start by doing that?
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