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Old 10-06-2009, 11:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist How else do you explain the different denomination if they donít believe that what differentiates them from the others is true?
I mean why start a whole new denomination if the differences are only superficial?
(But I guess this is going off topic.)
That is why we agree on essential doctrines of salvation vs non essential doctrines. We may not agree on everything and at times get hot over trivial ones but once we agree on the essentials which most denominations agree then that is ok.
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,122,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Wow! where do you and Legoman get these bizarre assumptions. I said no such thing
I got it from here:

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist
I will stick to mine but regardless God cursed the creation because man sinned. What's the problem? we brought it on ourselves, we only have ourselves to blame.


You're suggesting that it was our fault and somehow not part of Gods plan. We did not bring anything upon ourselves, it was all a part of Gods plan to teach us about good and evil...God is sovereign and everything is done for His purposes and His purposes alone.
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
But the verse does not say that God cursed the creation because man sinned. That is your interpretation. Let's look again what it really says:

Romans 8:20
KJV For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope

NASB For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope

We were subjected to futility/vanity not willingly. God didn't ask us! He subjected us to vanity, and therefore we are vain creatures. Now where does it say He did this because man sinned? IT DOESN'T. You are adding that into the verse my friend.
Why else would God curse the creation?
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
I got it from here:

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist
I will stick to mine but regardless God cursed the creation because man sinned. What's the problem? we brought it on ourselves, we only have ourselves to blame.


You're suggesting that it was our fault and somehow not part of Gods plan. We did not bring anything upon ourselves, it was all a part of Gods plan to teach us about good and evil...God is sovereign and everything is done for His purposes and His purposes alone.
Did we not sin? So if I rape a woman and He knew that was God's plan?
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:39 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,411,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
I got it from here:

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist
I will stick to mine but regardless God cursed the creation because man sinned. What's the problem? we brought it on ourselves, we only have ourselves to blame.


You're suggesting that it was our fault and somehow not part of Gods plan. We did not bring anything upon ourselves, it was all a part of Gods plan to teach us about good and evil...God is sovereign and everything is done for His purposes and His purposes alone.
Yes. And also when you said this Fundy:

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist
Futility means the inability to achieve a goal or purpose and because of man's sin, God cursed the physical universe, no part of creation fulfills God's original purpose.


You are saying God didn't know what He was doing and man's sin wrecked God's original purpose. But it seems you fail to realize that man's sin is fulfilling a very important part of God's plan; God intended us for all to be sinners for a season.
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Why else would God curse the creation?
I already told you why.

Ecc 1:13 It is an experience of evil Elohim
[God] has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it

Also:
Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Furthermore, God will free the creation (the entire creation, which includes all humans) from this suffering and bondage:
Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
I already told you why.

Ecc 1:13 It is an experience of evil Elohim [God] has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it

Also:
Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Furthermore, God will free the creation (the entire creation, which includes all humans) from this suffering and bondage:
Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
It's pretty simple God had a plan, the plan; Man sins, man falls, man is disconnected from God forever, God send saviour, man repents, man is saved, God gets the glory.

Bottom line, we sinned and creation fell. Us being saved is a biproduct of God getting the glory.
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Old 10-06-2009, 12:05 PM
 
37,587 posts, read 25,288,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
It's pretty simple God had a plan, the plan; Man sins, man falls, man is disconnected from God forever, God send saviour, man repents, man is saved, God gets the glory.

Bottom line, we sinned and creation fell. Us being saved is a biproduct of God getting the glory.
As long as you retain this view of God as an infinitely powerful HUMAN . . . with all our negative ego faults (Wrath, Jealousy, etc.) you will not be able to let go of this obsessive belief that God is a glory hound. NOTHING that happens to humans, that is done by humans, that is not done by humans can in any way affect or add to or subtract from God's infinite glory. God NEEDS NOTHING from US . . . WE NEED God! Love is the virtue we must develop . . . God is LOVE.
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Old 10-06-2009, 12:06 PM
 
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Christians are saved from God. When God looks at us He sees Jesus and when He sees Jesus He sees us.
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Old 10-06-2009, 12:33 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,411,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Christians are saved from God. When God looks at us He sees Jesus and when He sees Jesus He sees us.
"Christians are saved from God."

When you can finally see the absurdity of this statement, you might begin to understand God's love, why we were all subjected to vanity, and what it is we are actually saved from.

Peace out Fundy.
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