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Old 10-07-2009, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,425,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I don't see the difference? Eternal life not only means eternal quantity but divine quality of life. It means "life of the ages to come" and refers to the ressurection and heavenly existence in perfect glory and holiness. This life for believers in the Lord Jesus is experienced before heaven is reached. "Eternal life" is in essence nothing less than participation in the eternal life of the living word, Jesus Christ. It is the life o God in every believer, yet not fully maniefest until the ressurection.

So to you, eternal life means divine quality of life eternally?

So why all the verses in the bible say that God is not concerned with the things after death.

Isn't it true that after death you no longer need retribution of sins because you have paid the wages of sin, death?

So essentially you die more quickly if you sin?

You are saved from sin in your life leading to death?

I don't see any passage that says...after death you are saved from God's wrath or eternal death/non-existence.
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Old 10-07-2009, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl But isn't this the problem?
Every Christian denomination believes that they hold the key to knowing God personally, yet they all say different things.
Because of this I can only conclude that they all believe that they are right, so all Christians are essentially saved from doubt.
True! and saved from our guilty conscience....

Job 27:6
I will maintain my righteousness and never let go of it; my conscience will not reproach me as long as I live.

Acts 24:16
So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

2 Samuel 24:10
David was conscience-stricken after he had counted the fighting men, and he said to the LORD, "I have sinned greatly in what I have done. Now, O LORD, I beg you, take away the guilt of your servant. I have done a very foolish thing."

It is our conscience stricken with guilt and doubt that are the result of the sin. We are free from that when our sins are gone. Saved from our sins....if you believe you are saved from wrath or eternal fire or eternal death, well you are stuck in your guilt and doubt.
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Old 10-07-2009, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,137,165 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
ummmmmm...true but the bible is clear we must do something in order to have a relationship with Him.
Correct...once God gives us a new spiritual heart we can then hear the Gospel and respond, in faith, to it....that is why it is a gift of God and not something we make a choice to do. Only God gives the gift and He only gives it to whom He chooses to give it to...He doesn't give it to everyone and there is a purpose for that which fulfills His perfect plan.
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Old 10-07-2009, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I don't know if that's true. I would say, every denomination believes they are following scripture in order to obtain eternal life. There is one truth, we can't all be right.
That's the doubt part: "we can't all be right."

Who is then? The one who follows everything even hinted at in the bible?

The one who believes the most or has the most faith?

Hoe do you know what makes you "truly" saved if you have 3 different things you will be saved from?
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Old 10-07-2009, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist How else do you explain the different denomination if they donít believe that what differentiates them from the others is true?
I mean why start a whole new denomination if the differences are only superficial?
(But I guess this is going off topic.)
I don't think this is off topic. If there are several things one is saved from then you have myriads of things that may or may not save you.

It gets back to what are you saved from if you don't even know how exactly you are saved in the first place. Hopefully your denomination is the right one.
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Old 10-07-2009, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
That is why we agree on essential doctrines of salvation vs non essential doctrines. We may not agree on everything and at times get hot over trivial ones but once we agree on the essentials which most denominations agree then that is ok.
Is that salvation by majority?

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Old 10-07-2009, 12:58 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,430,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Lego,
I'm just catching up on the thread but I wanted to say that in the post you referenced, my point was that these verses point out that God is giving mankind choices, but also touching on the fact that most christians, I know, have a list of things that MIGHT send them to hell.

If you don't know the criteria specifically for being saved, and you think you are saved from eternal hell....that could be considered God changing his mind. It's open to interpretation.

No problem.

If we don't know the criteria for being saved, nor what we are saved from, we are in trouble. According to the totality of all Christian doctrine put together, everyone is going to hell!
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Old 10-07-2009, 01:04 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,486,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
So to you, eternal life means divine quality of life eternally?

So why all the verses in the bible say that God is not concerned with the things after death.

Isn't it true that after death you no longer need retribution of sins because you have paid the wages of sin, death?

So essentially you die more quickly if you sin?

You are saved from sin in your life leading to death?

I don't see any passage that says...after death you are saved from God's wrath or eternal death/non-existence.
I have no clue what you are talking about? I was pretty clear, to have eternal life is to have Jesus Christ. He is eternal and He is the life.
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Old 10-07-2009, 08:16 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,563,153 times
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Originally Posted by katjonjj
Quote:
I don't think this is off topic. If there are several things one is saved from then you have myriads of things that may or may not save you.
As I understand it Christian denominations appeared because of enormous philosophical differences.
At least this was the case in Europe but I have no idea if this is also the case in the US?
Am I correct in believing that the US has the most different Christian denominations?
Then again the N. American continent is much larger than Europe so it wouldn't surprise if it is indeed the case.
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Old 10-07-2009, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,484,732 times
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Believers are saved to the kingdom that they choose to obey.

There are degrees of salvation based on the maturity of the seeker.. son or daughter.

Our inheritance is based on overcoming, growing, learning, desiring HIS WILL be done above and beyond anything else in heaven or earth.

The DEvils even believe... and they tremble.

The Sons and Daughters of God can believe to the degree of being caught up in the power and glory of their maker and therein dwell with HIM.

Seek first the Kingdom of God and HIS righteousness, and ALL else shall be added.
EVEN LIFE ETERNAL... WIthout end.. no need for resurrection.



godspeed,

freedom
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