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Old 10-08-2009, 11:35 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,352,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Hades is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word Sheol and means unseen, it is the grave not a torture pit in the after life.
I never said that hades was a place of torment. You once again can't comprehend.

Sheol is the world that people go to after death. In this afterlife, people are but mere 'shades' of their former selves and is thus commonly described as a shadowy underworld like Hades.

Gehenna- a place where the wicked are punished after death
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:43 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,352,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
But does the verse you quoted mean that Christ's coming did not bring a change of the law?
  • Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
No I am not saying that the verse not saying that, the verse says that Jesus said that He didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfull it. This is what He also says.

Matthew 5:17), Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

The Levitical priesthood was imperfect and administered by sinful humans it was replaced by trhe perfect priest, the son of God. Christ is a perfect priest because he is wholly righteous, provides a once for all sacrifice of our sins, serves as our eternal priest before God in heaven, and lives forever. Therefore he is able to save completely and forever all who come to God through him.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:18 AM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,567,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
When I read the story of Sodom and Gemorrah, it is clear who is being restored....

This is just another example of people making scripture out to what it does not say.
Follow the pronouns. The same "they" that God took will have "their" captivity removed.
  • they were haughty, and committed abomination before me
  • therefore I took them away as I saw good
  • thou hast multiplied thine abominations more than they
  • they are more righteous than thou
  • When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters
"bring again their captivity" refers to salvation in the OT if you do a study of that phrase.

Do you really believe God is going to restore the fortunes of a geographical location or some mud houses and buildings?
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:22 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,352,170 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
Follow the pronouns. The same "they" that God took will have "their" captivity removed.
  • they were haughty, and committed abomination before me
  • therefore I took them away as I saw good
  • thou hast multiplied thine abominations more than they
  • they are more righteous than thou
  • When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters
"bring again their captivity" refers to salvation in the OT if you do a study of that phrase.

Do you really believe God is going to restore the fortunes of a geographical location or some mud houses and buildings?
Actually if you study it means imprisonment, but as related to the Hebrews it has come to mean expatriation. In the Biblical sense the terms captive and captivity were practically synonymous with exile, except the exile was mandatory; the people were in a dependent or oppressed condition.

I believe what the scriptures says. Many argue that this scripture means that God will restore everyone that was destroyed and that is not what this scripture says. It is late and I am going to bed.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:28 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,210,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
I never said that hades was a place of torment. You once again can't comprehend.

Sheol is the world that people go to after death. In this afterlife, people are but mere 'shades' of their former selves and is thus commonly described as a shadowy underworld like Hades.

Gehenna- a place where the wicked are punished after death
No, you are wrong again. Gehenna is the valley of hinnom a literal place on earth. You are taking jesus words completely out of context. He was warning the jews of the coming destruction of the temple if they did not receive him. Their bodies were quite literally thrown into the fires of the valley of Hinnom after the slaughter in 70 ad to dispose of their corpses.

Sheol is only the grave and there is no thought or understanding at all in the grave.

Job 3:17. "There [the grave] the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest."

Psalms 6:5. "For in death there is no remembrance of thee:in the grave who shall give thee thanks?"

Psalms 146:3-4. "Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whome there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish."

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20. "For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust and all turn to dust again."

Ecclesiastes 9:4-6,10. "For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing [....] Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished [...] Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest."

Daniel 12:13 "But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days."

John 11:11-14 "These things said he [Jesus]: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead."
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:34 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,352,170 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
No, you are wrong again. Gehenna is the valley of hinnom a literal place on earth. You are taking jesus words completely out of context. He was warning the jews of the coming destruction of the temple if they did not receive him. Their bodies were quite literally thrown into the fires of the valley of Hinnom after the slaughter in 70 ad to dispose of their corpses.

Sheol is only the grave and there is no thought or understanding at all in the grave.

Job 3:17. "There [the grave] the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest."

Psalms 6:5. "For in death there is no remembrance of thee:in the grave who shall give thee thanks?"

Psalms 146:3-4. "Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whome there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish."

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20. "For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust and all turn to dust again."

Ecclesiastes 9:4-6,10. "For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing [....] Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished [...] Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest."

Daniel 12:13 "But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days."

John 11:11-14 "These things said he [Jesus]: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead."
Yes, their bodies were thrown in the valley of Hinnon that they knew. That is why Jesus told them about such a place to understand what we know as Hell. Yes, I know their bodies were thrown there, that is why Jesus use told them about it. Study why Jesus told them about such a place and understand why He used it. I am not wrong, you don't understand why Jesus was saying what He was saying.

I never said there was thought or understanding in the grave. A world not like this world of the living, a world of nothing, you are not conscious. You are simply dead.

In Matthew 5:29 Christ states that it is better to lose an eye than to be thrown into gehenna, with a similar thought regarding it being better to lose a hand than to go into gehenna

"In the intertestamental period, gehenna was widely used as a metaphor for hell, the place of eternal damnation. Later, in rabbinic literature, we find gehenna given a location—in the depths of the earth, and sometimes in Africa beyond the Mountains of Darkness. Some Jews, of course, took the fiery images literally, supposing that Hinnom Valley itself would become the place of hellfire and judgment

The term gehenna is derived from the Valley of Hinnom, traditionally considered by the Jews the place of the final punishment of the ungodly. Located just south of Jerusalem

Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 10-09-2009 at 12:44 AM..
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:47 AM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,567,154 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
I believe what the scriptures says. Many argue that this scripture means that God will restore everyone that was destroyed and that is not what this scripture says. It is late and I am going to bed.
they were haughty, and committed abomination before me
therefore I took them away as I saw good
thou hast multiplied thine abominations more than they
they are more righteous than thou
I shall bring again their captivity...

I don't see any other way to fill in the theys other than with the people of Sodom whom God took away.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:49 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,352,170 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
they were haughty, and committed abomination before me
therefore I took them away as I saw good
thou hast multiplied thine abominations more than they
they are more righteous than thou
I shall bring again their captivity...

I don't see any other way to fill in the theys other than with the people of Sodom whom God took away.
Exactly!!
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:56 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,210,859 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
Yes, their bodies were thrown in the valley of Hinnon that they knew. That is why Jesus told them about such a place to understand what we know as Hell. Yes, I know their bodies were thrown there, that is why Jesus use told them about it. Study why Jesus told them about such a place and understand why He used it. I am not wrong, you don't understand why Jesus was saying what He was saying.

I never said there was thought or understanding in the grave. A world not like this world of the living, a world of nothing, you are not conscious. You are simply dead.

In Matthew 5:29 Christ states that it is better to lose an eye than to be thrown into gehenna, with a similar thought regarding it being better to lose a hand than to go into gehenna

"In the intertestamental period, gehenna was widely used as a metaphor for hell, the place of eternal damnation. Later, in rabbinic literature, we find gehenna given a location—in the depths of the earth, and sometimes in Africa beyond the Mountains of Darkness. Some Jews, of course, took the fiery images literally, supposing that Hinnom Valley itself would become the place of hellfire and judgment

The term gehenna is derived from the Valley of Hinnom, traditionally considered by the Jews the place of the final punishment of the ungodly. Located just south of Jerusalem

The Pharisees believed in the after life of hell and eternal damnation as Josephus tells us. Jesus adopted the language of the pharisees to communicate to their primitive minds ... Jesus was using reverse psychology on them when he gave this sermon. He was telling them that sin was in their bodies members, that no matter how they tried to follow the law they would sin and be worthy of destruction. He was showing them they would have to dismember themselves to be rid of the sin in their lives to such an extent they would even have to cut our their hearts, because to think a sin was to commit it. He was bringing them around to understanding their need for him to die for their sins , and was warning that if they did not receive him they would be destroyed as a nation.

I haven't seen you post one single thing in the entire time ive been posting here at CD that i did not at one time believe myself. I was indoctrinated by the best of the best of fundamental and orthodox Christians ... I understand exactly what you believe and how you have been programmed to interpret the bible better than you do i would imagine. So there is no truth in what you say when you say that i can't comprehend how you interprate scripture. But you on the other hand cannot say that about the word of reconciliation and the things that those of us who believe in the full victory of Christ over sin and death are revealing about the true Gospel of Christ which he has renewed in us. By now you should have learned something about what we are teaching, but i imagine your too stubborn and hard hearted to retain much of it for an extended period of time. That is why we(believers in UR) must continue to go over these things again and again and again in order to destroy the false teachings which have deceived you and many others even as i was once deceived before the lord revealed these truths to me.

Dont worry i will never give up on you ... I know and am confident that one way or another the lord will soften your heart and open you mind to this greatest of all truths, which is that God is the savior of all ...

Amen and Selah ...
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:58 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,352,170 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
The Pharisees believed in the after life of hell and eternal damnation as Josephus tells us. Jesus adopted the language of the pharisees to communicate to their primitive minds ... Jesus was using reverse psychology on them when he gave this sermon. He was telling them that sin was in their bodies members, that no matter how they tried to follow the law they would sin and be worthy of destruction. He was showing them they would have to dismember themselves to be rid of the sin in their lives to such an extent they would even have to cut our their hearts, because to think a sin was to commit it. He was bringing the around to understanding their need for him to die for their sins , and was warning that if they did not receive him they would be destroyed as a nation.

I haven't seen you post one single thing in the entire time ive been posting here at CD that i did not at one time believe myself. I was indoctrinated by the best of the best of fundamental and orthodox Christians ... I understand exactly what you believe and how you have been programmed to interpate the bible better than you do i would imagine. So there is no truth in what you say when you say that i can't comprehend how you interprate scripture. But you on the other hand cannot say that about the word of reconciliation and the things that those of us who believe in the full victory of Christ over sin and death are revealing about the true Gospel of Christ which he has renewed in us. By now you should have learned something about what we are teaching, but i imagine your o stubborn and hard harted to retain much of it for an extended period of time. That is why we(believers in UR) must continue to go over these things again and again and again in order to destroy the false teachings which have deceived you and many others even as i was once deceived before the lord revealed these truths to me.

Dont worry i will never give up on you ... I know and am confident that one way or another the lord will soften your heart and open you mind to this greatest of all truths, which is that God is the savior of all ...

Amen and Selah ...
You don't have to give up on me, but I will continue to believe that is in God's Word, not what is not there. I haven't been programmed, only taught to take scripture for what it says.
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