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Old 10-12-2009, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Germany
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find it quite strange and certainly contradictory of his character and self professed theology, that Clement of Alexandria who was a believer and teacher of universal reconciliation and or apocatastasis, held second Esdras as being divinely inspired and canonical ...
yes indeed, maybe thid book is not preserved in it's original version, I think it only exists in Latin.

I think the book of Enoch was considered scriptural by Origen, yet he believed in universalism, as I examined the book of Enoch in it's available Greek text it does not neccessarily contradict universalism despite the fierce punishments described therein, the book of Enoch is similarly bad translated as the canonic scriptures.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:27 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,823,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
The word never by itself does not contradict the knowledge that it is never too late for someone to be reconciled by God.
But when Jesus says unbelief will never be forgiven after death, then it is.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
But when Jesus says unbelief will never be forgiven after death, then it is.

But that's not the whole story concerning blasphemy. Just because it can never be forgiven, is not the whole message. When you pay the penalty, then you are free.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:54 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
But that's not the whole story concerning blasphemy. Just because it can never be forgiven, is not the whole message. When you pay the penalty, then you are free.
Now that is one of the scariest statement I have ever read in this forum......that is not biblical at all!
That is an ultimate statement saying that Jesus Christ came for nothing.....period!!

For the Scripture tell us.....
Jesus came to pay the penalty, the ultimate sacrifice by His blood on the cross for our sin and................ Jesus is the only One who can set the captive free from their sin!

Yes, it is true...that, "But when Jesus says unbelief will never be forgiven after death, then it is." Regardless if people don't want to believe it or not.
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Old 10-12-2009, 10:04 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,687,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
Now that is one of the scariest statement I have ever read in this forum......that is not biblical at all!
That is an ultimate statement saying that Jesus Christ came for nothing.....period!!

For the Scripture tell us.....
Jesus came to pay the penalty, the ultimate sacrifice by His blood on the cross for our sin and................ Jesus is the only One who can set the captive free from their sin!

Yes, it is true...that, "But when Jesus says unbelief will never be forgiven after death, then it is." Regardless if people don't want to believe it or not.

BOO!!!

You can be scared if you like, but your emotional posturing is meaningless.

The verses about blasphemy in the context of forgivness still does not equal eternal damnation or anihillation because it is about paying the penalty or suffering the consequenses.

I do not want anyone to suffer consequenses, but if you want to take the true scriptural path for blasphemy then try to deny your guilty of it at some point in your life and see how you will convolute the explanation that you have gotten around being unforgiven forever.

Begin.
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Germany
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Yes, it is true...that, "But when Jesus says unbelief will never be forgiven after death, then it is." Regardless if people don't want to believe it or not.
and where in the bible does say Jesus so? you should not invent things that Jesus said when actually He did not.
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:28 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
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Mark 3:29

But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." NIV

but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;' YLT
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________
hath not forgiveness = never be forgiven
eternal sin = age during judgement

no forgiveness for unbelief in the after life ... never ("hath not forgiveness")

Even the YLT can't get around that one.... unbelievers just doesn't have forgiveness

"Never means never"

Last edited by twin.spin; 10-12-2009 at 12:43 PM..
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:33 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,048,520 times
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Originally Posted by svenM View Post
and where in the bible does say Jesus so? you should not invent things that Jesus said when actually He did not.

First of all....are you a universalist?
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Germany
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I don't like the term universalist but yes I believe that Christ will save all men as written in the bible, but is that of relevance to answer my guestion?
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:31 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
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Yes, it is relevant.....for the reason universalism "invents things that Jesus said when actually He did not."

Now if one is a true seeker of the Truth, then I will go there with them.
But when someone already has been revealed the truth through the Holy Spirit and turned away from Him to false truth as the universalist have about the word of God,

Heb. 6:4-8
4.For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5.and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
7. For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;
8. but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

No, I won't go there.....why? Because we will get no where. All one has to do is read all the threads that UR's have in this forum going on right now, it's a game of merry go round.

Sorry, universal reconciliation is a false teaching, it contradicts everything Christ came to this world for and only God can reveal the Truth to one who holds to the fact that one does not have to believe what Christ taught, that if a person does not repent of their sin, they will not be eternally separated from God, yet universal reconciliation teaches that one day everyone will be regardless if they do or don't!

As much as I have read of this teaching of universal reconciliation, I'm really beginning to wonder if that teaching is not the unforgivable sin....

Last edited by Cyber Munchkin; 10-12-2009 at 01:41 PM..
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