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Old 10-12-2009, 05:50 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,683,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
The lie of Satan is get a person to think that there is the ability to get free once jugded to hell. Once your in, you're in.

You can claim what you like, doesn't change a thing. It is about paying what is due, and that's how it is. Your analogy doesn't hold up, neither did posting only part of the passage about it


Jesus triumphs again over the doctrine of Jesus defeat.
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:41 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,593,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
LOL they didn't die until 1000 some odd years later.... some swift punishment, and they still lived their lives and had kids

I do not think "die" means what you think it means. It was not that deception that convinced Eve to eat the fruit... that showed that the punishment was not "sudden death" because in her response to the serpent she says "lest you die", which seems insignificant but in the serpents "surely die" and

It was the same "surely die" as God said when you see the hebrew emphasizes the death by using the word for die twice. Eve uses die once.

So Eve thought she would suddenly die if she ate it... that was not the case, she would die in a sense that she is "doomed to die." If God is stating that Eve would suddenly die using Eve's words, then yes the serpent would have lied. BUT the serpent uses the same words that God does so the serpent is giving her clarification of God's words to her misunderstanding of "die."
Quote:
LOL they didn't die until 1000 some odd years later
Ge 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he *died.

*died #4191 means to die or kill, be dead.

A side note. The Word states that a day is as a 1,000 yrs to God and we see Adam died before 1000 yrs. i.e a 'day' had gone by.

Also Eve used the same word #4191 and satan used the same word back to her (#4191); to die, kill, be dead.

Sounds like 'real' dying to me.

BTW, satan did lie to Eve. His question and quotation of God was, "Ye shall not eat of every tree of the Garden?"

This is what God said:

Gen. 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

And Eve adds to what God stated:

Genesis 3:2 "And the woman said unto the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:"

Genesis 3:3 "But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, "Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die'."

Now satan is again lying to Eve by contradicting what God stated:

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:55 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,815,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
You can claim what you like, doesn't change a thing.
Ditto
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,389,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
Ge 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he *died.

*died #4191 means to die or kill, be dead.

A side note. The Word states that a day is as a 1,000 yrs to God and we see Adam died before 1000 yrs. i.e a 'day' had gone by.

Also Eve used the same word #4191 and satan used the same word back to her (#4191); to die, kill, be dead.

Sounds like 'real' dying to me.

BTW, satan did lie to Eve. His question and quotation of God was, "Ye shall not eat of every tree of the Garden?"

This is what God said:

Gen. 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

And Eve adds to what God stated:

Genesis 3:2 "And the woman said unto the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:"

Genesis 3:3 "But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, "Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die'."

Now satan is again lying to Eve by contradicting what God stated:

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
The fact is that the serpent and God said "surely die" which in the Hebrew is very different than Eve's "die."

God and Satan said the same thing. Eve thought she would die immediately... Satan corrected her by saying that she would not die immediately.. He did not tell her the other consequences but he did not lie. Unless of course you think God, in using the same words as Satan, lied...
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Old 10-19-2009, 06:34 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,406,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
The lie of Satan is get a person to think that there is the ability to get free once jugded to hell. Once your in, you're in.
Actually the lie of Satan is the title of this thread:

Many created, but few saved.
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Old 10-19-2009, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,236,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Actually the lie of Satan is the title of this thread:

Many created, but few saved.
Actually the lie of Satan is the belief that all will eventually be saved...and all that needs to be done to prove it is read the Bible, and believe what it says without twisting and turning it inside out to suit whatever it is you want it to say.
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Old 10-19-2009, 07:13 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,406,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Actually the lie of Satan is the belief that all will eventually be saved...and all that needs to be done to prove it is read the Bible, and believe what it says without twisting and turning it inside out to suit whatever it is you want it to say.

Yes read and believe the scriptures. Scriptures that say:

God will have all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4).
God is the savior of all men especially those that believe (1 Tim 4:10).

But of course that contradicts this:

Apocrypha 8:3 There may be many created, but few shall be saved.

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Old 10-19-2009, 07:27 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,815,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Yes read and believe the scriptures. Scriptures that say:

God will have all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4).
God is the savior of all men especially those that believe (1 Tim 4:10).

But of course that contradicts this:

Apocrypha 8:3 There may be many created, but few shall be saved.

Somebody once wrote that I go to the same verses all the time......
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

Ephesians 5:6
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient.

I'm not deceived....Nor was the early Christian church
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Old 10-19-2009, 07:35 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,406,571 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Somebody once wrote that I go to the same verses all the time......
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

Ephesians 5:6
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient.

I'm not deceived....Nor was the early Christian church

Round and round we go... I guess I will just rip Timothy out of my bible because God will not have all men to be saved and God is not the savior of all men.
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Old 10-19-2009, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,236,240 times
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[quote=legoman;11250325]Yes read and believe the scriptures. Scriptures that say:

God will have all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4).[/quote]

...now, the context in which this verse lives and breathes...

1 Timothy 2

(1)That it is meet to pray and give thanks for all men, and the reason why, (9) How women should be attired. (12) They are not permitted to teach. (15) They shall be saved, notwithstanding the testimonies of Gods wrath, in childbirth, if they continue in faith.
************
1)I exhort therefore, that first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men.
2)For Kings, and for all that are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3)For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4)Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

what verse 4 really means in context: Who willeth seriously all men - Not a part only, much less the smallest part. To be saved - Eternally.

5)For there is One God, and One Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6)Who gave Himself a ransome for all, to be testified in due time.

what verse 5 & 6 really mean in context:...the One God desires equally the salvation of all His creatures...Who gave Himself a ransome for all. Not for an elect Nation, like the Jews, but for all men. All men have been redeemed by His blood IF they will accept the ransome.

And, in order thereto, to come - They are not compelled. To the knowledge of the truth - which brings salvation.

7)Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an Apostle (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

what verse 7 really means in context: Faithfully and sincerely: and by faith he means wholesome and sound doctrine, and by truth, an upright and sincere handling of it.

...Paul implies the possibility of man's accepting it or rejecting it.

to come - They are not forced.

unto the knowledge - Greek, "the full knowledge" or "recognition" (See on [2467] 1 Co. 13:12; Philp.1:9). <<<HERE'S YOUR GREEK TRANSLATIONS YOU SO LOVE!!

the truth - the saving truth as it is in, and by, Jesus (John 17:3,17)


Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
God is the savior of all men especially those that believe (1 Tim 4:10).

But of course that contradicts this:

Apocrypha 8:3 There may be many created, but few shall be saved.

Wrong again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...now, the context in which this verse lives and breathes:

1 Tomothy 4

(1) He foretelleth that in the latter times there shall be a departure from the faith. (6) And to the end that Timothy might not fail in doing his duty, he furnished him with divers precepts belonging thereto.

(1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils:
(2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared with a hot iron,
(3) Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstance from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe, and know the truth.
(4) For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
(5) For it is sanctified by the word of God, and prayer.
(6) If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith, and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
(7) But refuse prophane and old wives fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
(8) For bodiloy exercise profiteth little, but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
(9) This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation:
(10) For therefore we both labor, and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is Savior of all men, specially of those that believe.

What verse 10 really means, in context:

For therefore. On account of the eternal life which godliness insures...

[We labor and suffer reproach. (2 Cor.11:21)
It is the duty and practice of Christians to humble themselves, in obedience to the command and example of the Lord; yet prudence must direct us [Christians] in what we [Christians] do...even our [Christians] speaking of what God has wrought for us [Christians], and in us [Christians], and by us [Christians].

...We [Christians] labor and suffer reproach, because we[Christians] trust in the living God. Who will give us [Christians] the life He has promised, Who is the Savior of all men[yes, the Savior of all who RECEIVE HIM], preserving them[ those who RECEIVE HIM] in this life, and willing to save them[BELIEVERS] eternally. But especially - In a more eminant manner of them that believe - And so are saved everlastingly.

If Christ be thus the Savior of all men, then much more will He be the Rewarder of those who seek and serve Him; He will provide well for those whom He has made new creatures.

(11) These things command and teach.
(12) Let no man despise thy youth, but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
(13) Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
(14) Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the Presbyterie.
(15) Meditate upon these things, give thyself wholly to them, that thy profiting may appear to all [or in all things].
(16) Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine: continue in them: for in doing this, thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.


Instead of ripping out the pages of the Bible legoman...repent and cry out to God to give you understanding of the Scriptures, to give you knowledge of the truth, and the wisdom to work them out for your salvation...then, with God's grace and blessing upon you, just read them with an open heart with your eyes wide open and be saved to abide with Him for all eternity......this I pray with all of my heart for you and the others who are deceived.

He loves you and wants this for you.

In Christ,
Verna.
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