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Old 10-19-2009, 01:36 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,424,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Yes, according to Scripture...you teach not the truth of the Gospel, telling people that even if they live their life in darkness unto death, that they will have a second chance...therefore you are a false teacher teaching false doctrine...God calls you a liar, and He says the truth is not in you...and He says in this you know not God, nor does He know you, and abides not in you nor you in Him.

1 John 1:

(5)This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
(6)If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.


Yes, according to Scripture...You teach not the truth of the Gospel, telling people that even if they do not believe unto death, they will have a second chance...therefore you are a false teacher, teaching false doctrine...God calls you a liar, and He says the truth is not in you...and He says you know not God, nor does He know you, and abides not in you nor you in Him.

1 John 2:

(3)And hereby we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
(4)He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
(5)But who so keepeth His Word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby we know that we are in HIm.
(6)He that sayeth he abideth in Him, ought himself also to walk, even as He walked.

2 Thess.1:

(8)In flaming fire, taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ,
(9)Who shall punish with EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD, AND FROM THE GLORY OF HIS POWER.

If you do not repent of your sins legoman, and get down on your knees and cry out to God for forgiveness, of not only your pride and stiffnecked ways, but for teaching others your lie, having their blood dripping from your very hands.

I truly do feel so sorry for you...all it would take is for you to be willing to repent, with a pure heart, and ask God to reveal this truth of the Gospel to you legoman...but you won't...this is pride...you don't want to be wrong...but God knows, you are very, very wrong.
You don't even realize what a prideful statement that was you just made. If pride is going to keep one out of heaven, neither you nor I are making it in my dear.

You are preaching the gospel according to Verna, and anyone who disagrees is condemned to hell.

How do you know my heart Verna? In my heart I know the salvation of all is truth, so in my heart I know I am talking about the true gospel.

Do you also judge Calvinists as teaching a different gospel (they believe Christ only died for some people, not all), and therefore all Calvinists are condemned to hell?

How about OSASers? They preach a different gospel from you, so are they condemned to hell?

Or maybe you don't think I was saved when I said a sinners prayer when I was 5 years old, and then tried to repent and live as best I knew for God for the next 30 years.

Your whole post makes me angry and sad at the same time Verna. You would do well to take your own words of advise about "not wanting to be wrong because of your pride".
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Old 10-19-2009, 01:48 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,424,185 times
Reputation: 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp View Post
Since we know that the wrath of God remains on those who do not obey we must examine the range of meaning of the word translated as "all" and find the usage which does not contradict the rest of Scripture.
Sorry Harold, I'm just a bit worked up from Verna's posts.

But you are wrong.

Yes, we know that God's wrath abides on those who do not believe. But it doesn't say it abides on them forever!

How do we know this is true? THINK ABOUT IT.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


At one point in your life, you did not believe. Therefore God's wrath abided on you. But when you came to believe, did God's wrath still abide on you? NO you now came to know God and have everlasting life. See how it works?

If you are not believing, then you get God's wrath UNTIL you believe.

Elsewhere, we are specifically told God's wrath ends, God is not angry forever, God will not always be angry, etc.

Rev 15:1 I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God's wrath is completed.

Isaiah 57:16 I will not accuse forever,
nor will I always be angry,
for then the spirit of man would grow faint before me—
the breath of man that I have created.

Micah 7:18 Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy.


There you go. Plain logical and scriptural proof that God's wrath is not forever, John 3:36 cannot mean God's wrath would stay on someone forever.

Therefore there is no need to change the meaning of the word "all", which would be simple scripture twisting.

Accept the plain truth. GOD WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED. It's good news for ALL PEOPLE!

Luke 2:10 I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people
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Old 10-19-2009, 01:53 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,340 posts, read 20,079,830 times
Reputation: 2114
It's so sad how we threaten with God's wrath . God's wrath is the fallen nature of man and it's effects. This is why it abides on us while we don't believe.

Gen 3

16 To the woman he said,
"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you."

17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field. 19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return."

Last edited by pcamps; 10-19-2009 at 02:28 PM..
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Old 10-19-2009, 02:25 PM
 
37,661 posts, read 25,365,683 times
Reputation: 5865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Yes, according to Scripture...you teach not the truth of the Gospel, telling people that even if they live their life in darkness unto death, that they will have a second chance...therefore you are a false teacher teaching false doctrine...God calls you a liar, and He says the truth is not in you...and He says in this you know not God, nor does He know you, and abides not in you nor you in Him.
Verna stop speaking for God . . . it is prideful blasphemy. All you possess is YOUR opinion and interpretation of what you read in scriptures. Reading is a skill involving denotation and connotation. Reading comprehension is a greater skill involving far more . . and hermeneutics (exegesis, eisegesis,etc.) is an even greater skill requiring significant knowledge, linguistics, anthropological, archeological, historical, etc. KNOWLEDGE beyond what is normally available to readers of the scriptures.

You are reading through your carnal understanding and human emotions . . . (which you ascribe to God . . . weaknesses and all). Judging others with your opinions AS IF they were God's own judgment is very dangerous . . . and you seem to do it with frequent abandon. There is no love in that, Verna . . . yet you are clearly a loving person. How have you been so egregiously corrupted in your understanding of God's love for us ALL?
Quote:
If you do not repent of your sins legoman, and get down on your knees and cry out to God for forgiveness, of not only your pride and stiffnecked ways, but for teaching others your lie, having their blood dripping from your very hands.
May God forgive you, Verna . . . you trespass too far. It can only be a lie if the person saying it believes it to be untrue. It is NOT a lie just because YOU do not believe it.
Quote:
I truly do feel so sorry for you...all it would take is for you to be willing to repent, with a pure heart, and ask God to reveal this truth of the Gospel to you legoman...but you won't...this is pride...you don't want to be wrong...but God knows, you are very, very wrong.
Look in the mirror and then into to your own heart and decide who does not want to be wrong, Verna . . . who is so prideful they routinely judge others in the name of God . . . who routinely calls others liars who do not agree with you . . . when you cannot possibly know whether or not they believe what they are saying. There is no tolerance and no love in your prideful judgments.
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Old 10-19-2009, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,253,023 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundance View Post
I'm sure it is. But that doesn't answer my question, now does it? I use KJV and there is no book called that, in the KJV....sounds like you are using text outside of the scriptures.
It is in the King James 1611 version.
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Old 10-19-2009, 02:49 PM
 
Location: USA
1,895 posts, read 4,052,149 times
Reputation: 1990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
It is in the King James 1611 version.
What should I do?

Should I rush out and get one of these 1611 editions? Is my KJV worthless? I must know ~
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,253,023 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundance View Post
What should I do?

Should I rush out and get one of these 1611 editions? Is my KJV worthless? I must know ~
No, your KJV is just fine.
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:20 PM
 
37,661 posts, read 25,365,683 times
Reputation: 5865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundance View Post
What should I do?

Should I rush out and get one of these 1611 editions? Is my KJV worthless? I must know ~
They are what is called the "missing books of the bible" and are not part of the canon . . . although the Catholic Church does have some of them available. Here is a list of most of them:

The Epistles of Jesus to Abgarus
Teachings of the Twelve Apostles (Didache)
Epistle of the Apostles
Acts of Andrew
Acts of Andrew and Matthias*
Acts of Barnabas*
Epistle of Barnabas
Gospel of Barnabas
Gospel of Bartholomew
Martyrdom of Bartholomew*
Apocryphon of James
Book of James (protevangelium)
First Apocalypse of James
Second Apocalypse of James
Acts of John
Acts of John the Theologian*
Apocryphon of John (long version)
Book of John the Evangelist
Revelation of John the Theologian*
Secret Gospel of Mark
Acts and Martyrdom of St. Matthew the Apostle*
The Martyrdom of Matthew
Gospel (Acts) of Nicodemus (aka The Acts of Pontius Pilate)
Acts of Peter
Acts of Peter and Andrew
Apocalypse of Peter - version 1
Apocalypse of Peter - version 2
Gospel of Peter
Letter of Peter to Philip
Acts of Philip
Gospel of Philip
Acts of Thaddeus (Epistles of Pontius Pilate)*
Teaching of Thaddeus
Acts of Thomas
Apocalypse of Thomas
Book of Thomas the Contender
Consumation of Thomas
Gospel of Thomas
3 Corinthians
Acts 29
Acts of Paul
Acts of Paul and Thecla
Acts of Peter and Paul*
Acts of Xanthippe and Polyxena
Apocalypse of Paul
Apocalypse of Paul - other version
Epistle to the Laodiceans
Revelation of Paul*
Paul and Seneca
Arabic Infancy Gospel
First Infancy Gospel of Jesus Christ
Infancy Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew
Infancy Gospel of Thomas - Greek A
Infancy Gospel of Thomas - Greek B
Infancy Gospel of Thomas - Latin
Gospel of Mary
Gospel of the Nativity of Mary
Book of John concerning the dormition of Mary (transitus marić)*
History of Joseph the Carpenter*
Narrative of Joseph of Arimathaea

DSIPUTED APROCRYPHA AND EPISTLES, ETC:

Shepherd of Hermas
II Clement
Diatession
Gospel of the Lord (Marcion)
I Clement
Avenging of the Saviour
Epistles of Pontius Pilate
Letter of Aristeas
Sentences of the Sextus
Alexandrians
Revelations of Stephen
Muratonian Canon (fragment)
Gospel of the Ebionites
Gospel of the Egyptians
Egerton Gospel (Egerton Papyrus 2)*
Gospel of the Hebrews
Traditions of Mattias
Gospel of the Nazaraeans
Preaching of Peter
Apostolic Constitutions (Didascalia Apostolorum- 8 Books)
Psuedo-Sibylline Oracles (14 Chapters)
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:25 PM
 
Location: USA
1,895 posts, read 4,052,149 times
Reputation: 1990
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
They are what is called the "missing books of the bible" and are not part of the canon . . . although the Catholic Church does have some of them available. Here is a list of most of them:

The Epistles of Jesus to Abgarus
Teachings of the Twelve Apostles (Didache)
Epistle of the Apostles
Acts of Andrew
Acts of Andrew and Matthias*
Acts of Barnabas*
Epistle of Barnabas
Gospel of Barnabas
Gospel of Bartholomew
Martyrdom of Bartholomew*
Apocryphon of James
Book of James (protevangelium)
First Apocalypse of James
Second Apocalypse of James
Acts of John
Acts of John the Theologian*
Apocryphon of John (long version)
Book of John the Evangelist
Revelation of John the Theologian*
Secret Gospel of Mark
Acts and Martyrdom of St. Matthew the Apostle*
The Martyrdom of Matthew
Gospel (Acts) of Nicodemus (aka The Acts of Pontius Pilate)
Acts of Peter
Acts of Peter and Andrew
Apocalypse of Peter - version 1
Apocalypse of Peter - version 2
Gospel of Peter
Letter of Peter to Philip
Acts of Philip
Gospel of Philip
Acts of Thaddeus (Epistles of Pontius Pilate)*
Teaching of Thaddeus
Acts of Thomas
Apocalypse of Thomas
Book of Thomas the Contender
Consumation of Thomas
Gospel of Thomas
3 Corinthians
Acts 29
Acts of Paul
Acts of Paul and Thecla
Acts of Peter and Paul*
Acts of Xanthippe and Polyxena
Apocalypse of Paul
Apocalypse of Paul - other version
Epistle to the Laodiceans
Revelation of Paul*
Paul and Seneca
Arabic Infancy Gospel
First Infancy Gospel of Jesus Christ
Infancy Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew
Infancy Gospel of Thomas - Greek A
Infancy Gospel of Thomas - Greek B
Infancy Gospel of Thomas - Latin
Gospel of Mary
Gospel of the Nativity of Mary
Book of John concerning the dormition of Mary (transitus marić)*
History of Joseph the Carpenter*
Narrative of Joseph of Arimathaea

DSIPUTED APROCRYPHA AND EPISTLES, ETC:

Shepherd of Hermas
II Clement
Diatession
Gospel of the Lord (Marcion)
I Clement
Avenging of the Saviour
Epistles of Pontius Pilate
Letter of Aristeas
Sentences of the Sextus
Alexandrians
Revelations of Stephen
Muratonian Canon (fragment)
Gospel of the Ebionites
Gospel of the Egyptians
Egerton Gospel (Egerton Papyrus 2)*
Gospel of the Hebrews
Traditions of Mattias
Gospel of the Nazaraeans
Preaching of Peter
Apostolic Constitutions (Didascalia Apostolorum- 8 Books)
Psuedo-Sibylline Oracles (14 Chapters)
Thank you. I was actually just joshing Miss P a bit. My KJV will do just fine.........
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:29 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,340 posts, read 20,079,830 times
Reputation: 2114
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
They are what is called the "missing books of the bible" and are not part of the canon . . . although the Catholic Church does have some of them available. Here is a list of most of them:

The Epistles of Jesus to Abgarus
Teachings of the Twelve Apostles (Didache)
Epistle of the Apostles
Acts of Andrew
Acts of Andrew and Matthias*
Acts of Barnabas*
Epistle of Barnabas
Gospel of Barnabas
Gospel of Bartholomew
Martyrdom of Bartholomew*
Apocryphon of James
Book of James (protevangelium)
First Apocalypse of James
Second Apocalypse of James
Acts of John
Acts of John the Theologian*
Apocryphon of John (long version)
Book of John the Evangelist
Revelation of John the Theologian*
Secret Gospel of Mark
Acts and Martyrdom of St. Matthew the Apostle*
The Martyrdom of Matthew
Gospel (Acts) of Nicodemus (aka The Acts of Pontius Pilate)
Acts of Peter
Acts of Peter and Andrew
Apocalypse of Peter - version 1
Apocalypse of Peter - version 2
Gospel of Peter
Letter of Peter to Philip
Acts of Philip
Gospel of Philip
Acts of Thaddeus (Epistles of Pontius Pilate)*
Teaching of Thaddeus
Acts of Thomas
Apocalypse of Thomas
Book of Thomas the Contender
Consumation of Thomas
Gospel of Thomas
3 Corinthians
Acts 29
Acts of Paul
Acts of Paul and Thecla
Acts of Peter and Paul*
Acts of Xanthippe and Polyxena
Apocalypse of Paul
Apocalypse of Paul - other version
Epistle to the Laodiceans
Revelation of Paul*
Paul and Seneca
Arabic Infancy Gospel
First Infancy Gospel of Jesus Christ
Infancy Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew
Infancy Gospel of Thomas - Greek A
Infancy Gospel of Thomas - Greek B
Infancy Gospel of Thomas - Latin
Gospel of Mary
Gospel of the Nativity of Mary
Book of John concerning the dormition of Mary (transitus marić)*
History of Joseph the Carpenter*
Narrative of Joseph of Arimathaea

DSIPUTED APROCRYPHA AND EPISTLES, ETC:

Shepherd of Hermas
II Clement
Diatession
Gospel of the Lord (Marcion)
I Clement
Avenging of the Saviour
Epistles of Pontius Pilate
Letter of Aristeas
Sentences of the Sextus
Alexandrians
Revelations of Stephen
Muratonian Canon (fragment)
Gospel of the Ebionites
Gospel of the Egyptians
Egerton Gospel (Egerton Papyrus 2)*
Gospel of the Hebrews
Traditions of Mattias
Gospel of the Nazaraeans
Preaching of Peter
Apostolic Constitutions (Didascalia Apostolorum- 8 Books)
Psuedo-Sibylline Oracles (14 Chapters)
Can you imagine having to read the bible in a year with all that lot included .
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