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Old 10-08-2009, 01:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundance View Post
I'm sure you count yourself amongst the saved, especially since you have informed us all that you never sin....(except that if you DO sin, it's a "sin of ignorance").

LOL....

Num 15:27 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.

Num 15:28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.


Num 15:30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.


Num 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

One cannot understand the Scriptures if one does not distinguish between sins of ignorance and willful (presumptuous) sin just as God does.


HK
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Old 10-08-2009, 01:58 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,355,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
(1) Many created, but few saved. (6) He asketh why God destroyed His own works, (26) and prayeth God to look upon the people which only serve Him. (41) God answereth that all seed commeth not to God, (52) and that glory is prepared for Him and such like.

1 And He answered me, saying, The Most High hath made this world for many, but the world to come for few.
2 I will tell thee a similitude, Esdras, As when thou askest the earth, it shall say unto thee, that it giveth much mold wherof earthen vessels are made, but little dust that gold cometh of: even so is the course of this present world.
3 There may be many created, but few shall be saved.
4 So answered I and said, Swallow then down my soul, understanding, and devour wisdom.
5 For thou hast agreed to give ear, and art willing to prophesy for thou hast no longer space then only to live.
6 O Lord, if Thou suffer not thy servant that we may pray before thee, and Thou give us seed unto our heart, and culture to our understanding, that there may come fruit of it, how shall each man live that is corrupt, who beareth the place of man?
7 For Thou art alone, and we all one workmanship of Thine hands, like as Thou hast said.
8 For when the body is fashioned now in the mother's womb, and Thou givest it members, Thy creature is preserved in fire and water, and nine months doeth Thy workmanship endure Thy creature which is created in her.
9 But that which keepeth, and is kept, shall both be preserved: and when the time cometh, the womb preserved, delivereth up the things that grew in it.
10 For thou hast commanded out of the parts of the body, that is to say, out of the breast's milk to be given, which is the fruit of the breasts,
11 That the thing which is fashioned, may be nourished for a time, till Thou disposest it to Thy mercy.
12 Thou broughtest it up with Thy righteousness, and nourishedst it in Thy Law, and reformed it with Thy judgement.
13 And Thou shalt mortify it as Thy creature, and quicken it as Thy work.
14 If therefore Thou shalt destroy him which with so great labor was fashioned, it is an easy thing thing to be ordeined by Thy Commandment, that the thing which was made might be preserved.
15 Now therefore, Lord, I will speak (touching man in general, Thou knowest best) but touching Thy people, for whose sake I am sorry,
16 And for Thine inheritance, for whose cause I mourne, and for Israel, for whom I am heavy, and for Jacob, for whose sake I am troubled:
17 Therefore will I begin to pray before Thee, for myself, and for them: for I see the falls of us that dwell in the land.
18 But I have heard the swiftness of the Judge which is to come.
19 Therefore hear my voice, and understand my words, and I shall speak before Thee: this is the beginning of the words of Edras, before he was taken up: and I said:
20 O Lord, Thou that dwellest in everlastingness, which beholdest from above, things in heaven, and in the air,
24 O hear the prayer of Thy servant, and give ear to the petition of Thy creature.
26 O look not upon the sins of Thy people: but on them which serve Thee in truth.
27 Regard not the wicked inventions of the heathen: but the desire of those that keep Thy Testimonies in afflictions.
28 Think not upon those that have walked fainedly before Thee: but remember them, which according to Thy will have known Thy fear.
29 Let it not be Thy will to destroy them, which have lived like beasts: but to look upon them that have clearly taught Thy Law.
30 Take Thou no indignation at them which are deemed worse than beasts: but love them that always put their trust in Thy righteousness, and glory.
33 For the just which have many good works layed up with Thee, shall out of their own deeds receive reward.
34 For what is man that Thou shouldest take displeasure at him? or what is a corruptible generation, that Thou shouldest be so bitter toward it?
35 For in truth there is no man among them that be born, but but he hath dealt wickedly, and among the faithfull, there is none that hath not done amiss.
36 For in this, O Lord, Thy righteousness, and Thy goodness shall be declared, if Thou be merciful unto them which have not the confidence [substance] of good works.
37 Then answered He me, and said, Some things hast thou spoken aright, and according unto thy words it shall be
38 For indeed I will not think on the dispositon of them which have sinned before death, before judgement, before destruction.
39 But I will rejoice over the dispensation of the righteous, and I will remember also their pilgrimage, and the salvation, and the reward that they shall have.
40 Like as I have spoken now, so shall it come to pass.
41 For as the husbandman soweth much seed upon the ground, and planteth many trees, and yet the thing that is sowen good in his season, commeth not up, neither doeth all that is planted take root: even so is it of them that are sowen in the world, they shall not all be saved.
42 I answered then, and said, If I have found grace, let me speak.
43 Like as the husbandsmans seed perisheth, if it come not up, and receive not the rain in due season, or if there come too much rain and corrupt it:
44 Even so perisheth man also which is formed with Thy hands, and is called Thine own image, because Thou art like unto him, for whose sake Thou hast made all things, and likened him unto the husbandmans seed.
45 Be not wroth with us, but spare Thy people, and have mercy upon Thine own inheritance: for Thou art merciful unto Thy creature.
46 Then answered He me, and said, Things present are for the present; and things to come, for such as be to come.
47 For thou commest far short, that thou shouldest be able to love My creature more than I: but I have ofttimes drawen nigh unto thee, and unto it, but never to the unrighteous.
48 In this also thou art marvelous before the Most High;
49 In that thou hast humbled thyself as it becometh thee, and hast not judged thyself worthy to be much glorified among the righteous.
50 For many great miseries shall be done to them, that in the latter time shall dwell in the world, because they have walked in great pride.
51 But understand thou, for thyself, and seek out the glory for such as be like thee.
52 For unto you is Paradise opened, the tree of life is planted, the time to come is prepared, plenteousness is made ready, a city is builded, and rest is allowed, yea perfect goodness and wisdom.
53 The root of evil is sealed up from you, weakness and the moth is hid from you, and corruption is fled into hell to be forgotten.
54 Sorrows are passed, and in the end is shewed the treasure of immortality.
55 And therefore ask thou no more questions concerning the multitude of them that perish.
56 For when they had taken liberty, they despised the Most High, thought scorn of His Law, and forsook His ways.
57 Moreover, they have troden down His righteous,
58 And said in their heart, that there is no God, yea and that knowing they must die.
59 For as the things aforesaid shall receive you, so thirst and pain are prepared for them; for it was not His will that men should come to nought.
60 But they which be created, have defiled the Name of Him that made them, and were unthankful unto Him which prepared life for them.
61 And therefore is My judgement now at hand.
62 These things have I not shewed unto all men, but unto thee, and a few like thee. Then answered I, and said,
63 Behold, O Lord, now hast Thou shewed me the multitude of the wonders which Thou wilt begin to do in the last times: but at what time, Thou hast not shewed me.



Apocrypha. Ch. 8.
Hello, Verna this is very interesting that you posted and very much true. God created everyone for Him and loves everyone, but we have a responsibility to respond to Him according to His Holyness. People in this day and age just want wake up and comprehend that the same God that created us, is going to be the same God that will send them to Hell, if they don't live by His standards.

God is a loving, mercyful, and Holy God who will not over look sin. There is evidence in the OT of the people who were destroyed because of their wickedness.

I remember fearing the Lord one day and thinking that He would kill or destroy me, but then I heard in my spirit, that God was trying to tell me that destroying was for His enemy's not His children. So, now I take pleasure in knowing that being God's child, you have His protection, and your enemy's don't stand a chance.

Now don't get me wrong, I am a child of God, but I know that I still have to live up to God's standards and live the way that He says live, because if I don't want God to deal with me according to my sins. If that was the case, death is the penalty for Sin, but Jesus paid that for us. But many want accept Jesus, so they will live without Him.

I have noticed that people at one time called themselves a child of God, some of those are turning from God, and sad to say, some will be in Hell, separated from Him.

So, we as believers have to live a holy life and live up to the standards of God that pleases Him. In the end if you fall short, it will be to late. I don't want to hear the words from Jesus, I never knew you, depart from me. Because some people are deceived and even think that God will bring them out of that hell back into His presence. This is a man made doctrine, to help people deal with reality.

What is surprising to me now is you even have people who are even trying to attack the very words of Jesus, because His words are showing their doctrine to be false. If you have someone that says that they are Christian and believe in Jesus, but then turn around and say, but how do you know that Jesus words are true, or question if He is going to do what He said that He would do? You better run, because if they question Him, they will question you.

MY eyes have been opened to this false doctrine to what they are doing now, and what I see people on here doing. They can't find scripture to prove their false doctrine, so they play around with words, learn one or two greek words, and then attack and say that we really don't know if Jesus words are His words. Then you will even get that the bible is wrong and was translated wrong. But I find it funny that they believe the bible is wrong, but they believe the one scripture that they base their belief on is the right part. LOL, this is very entertaining to me.

Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 10-08-2009 at 02:08 PM..
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Old 10-08-2009, 02:02 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,216,735 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp View Post
Num 15:27 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.

Num 15:28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.


Num 15:30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.


Num 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

One cannot understand the Scriptures if one does not distinguish between sins of ignorance and willful (presumptuous) sin just as God does.


HK
So you don't spit, cuss, drink, masturbate, smoke, eat cheetos' or drink caffeinated beverages, laugh at crass humor, watch rated R movies(or pg 13 for that matter), eat pork or any other cloven hoofed animal, work on Saturday, get angry, feel envious, or jealousy, or greed, etc. etc. etc. on purpose. Its just an accident when any of the above happens, and you really didn't mean to ... Right. Same here ... Ignorance is bliss so they say ...
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:32 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,216,735 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
I'll always stand upon my King James Version...I love my Bible.

And obviously any other non-biblical texts that support your false doctrine. Really Verna i cant believe you would stoop to this. Cant we just stick to the bible you claim to love so much?
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:44 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,216,735 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
Hello, Verna this is very interesting that you posted and very much true. God created everyone for Him and loves everyone, but we have a responsibility to respond to Him according to His Holyness. People in this day and age just want wake up and comprehend that the same God that created us, is going to be the same God that will send them to Hell, if they don't live by His standards.

God is a loving, mercyful, and Holy God who will not over look sin. There is evidence in the OT of the people who were destroyed because of their wickedness.

I remember fearing the Lord one day and thinking that He would kill or destroy me, but then I heard in my spirit, that God was trying to tell me that destroying was for His enemy's not His children. So, now I take pleasure in knowing that being God's child, you have His protection, and your enemy's don't stand a chance.

Now don't get me wrong, I am a child of God, but I know that I still have to live up to God's standards and live the way that He says live, because if I don't want God to deal with me according to my sins. If that was the case, death is the penalty for Sin, but Jesus paid that for us. But many want accept Jesus, so they will live without Him.

I have noticed that people at one time called themselves a child of God, some of those are turning from God, and sad to say, some will be in Hell, separated from Him.

So, we as believers have to live a holy life and live up to the standards of God that pleases Him. In the end if you fall short, it will be to late. I don't want to hear the words from Jesus, I never knew you, depart from me. Because some people are deceived and even think that God will bring them out of that hell back into His presence. This is a man made doctrine, to help people deal with reality.

What is surprising to me now is you even have people who are even trying to attack the very words of Jesus, because His words are showing their doctrine to be false. If you have someone that says that they are Christian and believe in Jesus, but then turn around and say, but how do you know that Jesus words are true, or question if He is going to do what He said that He would do? You better run, because if they question Him, they will question you.

MY eyes have been opened to this false doctrine to what they are doing now, and what I see people on here doing. They can't find scripture to prove their false doctrine, so they play around with words, learn one or two greek words, and then attack and say that we really don't know if Jesus words are His words. Then you will even get that the bible is wrong and was translated wrong. But I find it funny that they believe the bible is wrong, but they believe the one scripture that they base their belief on is the right part. LOL, this is very entertaining to me.
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. (1 timothy 4:10)

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (2 Cor 5:19)

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. (rev. 21:5)

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. (Col 1:20)

One scripture?

These are just a scant few of the many scriptures that proclaim god will reconcile all things, and make all things new, as God is the savior of all men. Who is twisting scripture?
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:09 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,355,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. (1 timothy 4:10)

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (2 Cor 5:19)

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. (rev. 21:5)

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. (Col 1:20)

One scripture?

These are just a scant few of the many scriptures that proclaim god will reconcile all things, and make all things new, as God is the savior of all men. Who is twisting scripture?
I can read these scriptures and still not see what you are trying to make them say. I read the entire bible and take God at His Word. If Jesus says that He will send someone to Hell, then I believe it. There is nothing in the bible that says that God will send them there and then bring them out of that Hell. You are more then welcome to believe it, but that is your choice.

Who is twisting scripture, you are?
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:39 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,216,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
I can read these scriptures and still not see what you are trying to make them say. I read the entire bible and take God at His Word. If Jesus says that He will send someone to Hell, then I believe it. There is nothing in the bible that says that God will send them there and then bring them out of that Hell. You are more then welcome to believe it, but that is your choice.

Who is twisting scripture, you are?
Honestly Miss Shawn, i wonder if you have eyes to see at all.
the blind only see what they are told is there by other blind people. And then they all end up in the ditch.

I could read the above quoted verses to any 1st grader and even at their level of reading comprehension they would be able to decipher what you seem to think is so mysterious.

The bible says..

God is the savior of all men ...

You see ...

God is not the savior of all men.

The bibles says Jesus will make everything new ...

You see Christ will not make everything new ...

The bible says God was in Christ reconciling all things to himself whether in heaven or in earth ...

You see God will not reconcile everything to himself whether in heaven or in earth ...

The bible says God is in Christ reconciling the world, not imputing their sins unto them ...

You see God is not reconciling the world and he is imputing their sins unto most of them.

You cannot see what is there just as clear as day.
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:43 PM
 
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The bible ...

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. (1 timothy 4:10)

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (2 Cor 5:19)

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. (rev. 21:5)

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. (Col 1:20)


Verna and the rest of the fundamentalist/orthodox religionists ...

Many Created, But Few Saved.



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Old 10-08-2009, 04:59 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,474,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
The bible ...

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. (1 timothy 4:10)

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (2 Cor 5:19)

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. (rev. 21:5)

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. (Col 1:20)


Verna and the rest of the fundamentalist/orthodox religionists ...

Many Created, But Few Saved.



This is a CNN news report.

President Barak Obama's inclusive speech, his addictive personality and sexy charisma sent heartbeats racing through the whole world today as he addressed everyone in the world on many issues but what really stood out was his popular inclusive ideals that helped win the election. He won hearts and minds of the world when he addressed himself to the whole world as a citizen of the world.

Hmmmm...I did not watch that speech. I guess I am not part of the world nor am I a citizen of the world?
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Old 10-08-2009, 05:16 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,216,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
This is a CNN news report.

President Barak Obama's inclusive speech and addictive personality and just his sexy charisma sent heartbeats racing through the whole world today as he addressed everyone in the world on many issues but what really stood out was his popular inclusive ideals that helped win the election. He won hearts and minds of the world when he addressed himself to the whole world as a citizen of the world.

Hmmmm...I did not watch that speech? I guess I am not part of the world nor am I a citizen of the world

What does this have to do with my post?

How do you understand this apearent dichotomy?

Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son ...

1Jo 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Mat 5:43
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Luk 16:8
And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

Notice that both letters are written by the same man?

God loves the world so much he gave his son to reconcile the world.

But if we love the world then the love of God is not in us?

We are told to love all men, even our enemies ... Who are the children of this world ...

So if i love my neighbor and enemy who may be the children of the world, or things in this world ... Then the love of God is not in me?

I'm curious how you explain this apparently glaring contradiction.
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