U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-08-2009, 07:13 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,210,859 times
Reputation: 892

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Miss Shawn how did you ecape God's wrath before you believed if He(God) went around killing all who did not do as He wanted ????????.

Do you not find it strange that 99% of the scripture you quote to justify what you believe is OLD COVENANT.
Now how do you tie this mad angry vengeful God with just this one of hundreds of NEW COVENANT scriptures that state otherwise.

6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Miss Shawn along with most fundamentalist Christians are Judaized Christians ... That is why she and many of them use the old testament to show Gods wrath. But they forget that jesus changed the law ...

Mat 5:43
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.(old covenant)

Mat 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;(new covenant)

They cant tell the difference because they don't understand the fullness of Gods love even for his enemies. We understand that he destroys them so that he can make them new again. They do not understand that, or the fact that Gods wrath derives from his jealous love and they think God is a vindictive and infinitely brutal Tyrant. Because their stony hearts are filled with violence and greed, they desire their enemies to suffer for ever and the do not want to share the salvation of Christ with all people.

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 10-08-2009 at 07:22 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-08-2009, 07:20 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,352,170 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Miss Shawn along with most of fundamentalist Christians are Judaized Christians ... That is why she and many of them use the old testament to show Gods wrath. But they forget that jesus changed the law ...

Mat 5:43
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.(old covenant)

Mat 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;(new covenant)

They cant tell the difference because they don't understand the fullness of Gods love even for his enemies. We understand that he destroys them so that he can make them new again. They do not understand that, or the fact that Gods wrath derives from his jealous love and they think God is a vindictive and infinitely brutal Tyrant. And because their stony hearts are filled with violence and greed, they desire their enemies to suffer for ever and the do not want to share the salvation of Christ with all people.
I don't think God is mean or vindictive I believe what He says that He will do.

It amazes me that what God did, people want to hide it under the rug. Yes, God is a merciful and loving God, but the same God can destroy you.

God is a just God and is Holy. I didn't make up the scriptures of God who wiped out people and destroyed cities, but I don't try to hide it either. People who have a hard time with these scripture need to examine themselves.

Quote:
But they forget that jesus changed the law ...
REally find that in scripture:

Matthew 5:17), Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Show me scripture that says that Jesus says that He was going to change the law.

Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 10-08-2009 at 07:32 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-08-2009, 07:33 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,210,859 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
I don't think God is mean or vindictive I believe what He says that He will do.

It amazes me that what God did, people want to hide it under the rug. Yes, God is a merciful and loving God, but the same God can destroy you.

God is a just God and is Holy. I didn' make up the scripture of God who wiped out people and destroyed cities, but I don't try to hide it either. People who have a hard time with these scripture need to examine themselves.

I don't have a hard time with these scriptures ... It seems to me you are the one who misunderstands them. Gods holiness is not greater than or even separate from hi love. God is love, and that is why he is holy.

You fail to see the mortal destruction is only temporary along with time itself. But at the fullness of times the destruction of death andevil will be done away with. At that time all things will be restored including everything God has destroyed by his judgments, even sodom and gomorrah (Eze. 16:53-55)

Again, i restate my case ... You do not understand that Gods wrath derives from his love and is not separate from it. He destroys so that he can renew ... And Christ will make all things new ...

Rev 21:5
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

You do not believe what Christ says, and you make him out to be a liar in as much. You do not believe Christ will make all things new, even the wicked and unbelievers who he destroys in fiery judgments. You do not believe what the bible clearly says, that the wicked and unbelievers are saved as though by fire(1 Cor 3:15). It seems you choose not to understand because your heart is violent and greedy. That is the only explanation. Either that or your heart is ruled by fear, in that if you did believe that God would save all men and you were wrong you would be damned to everlasting torture yourself(something that the bible never declares in and of itself but is the threat used by sanctimonious men to control the laity). I don't imagine that to be the case because you have not become a mulsim after all and they use the same scare tactics that fundamentalist Christians use. It is the false doctrine of false religion no matter Christian or Muslim or any other manner of faith.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-08-2009, 07:34 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,352,170 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I don't have a hard time with these scriptures ... It seems to me you are the one who misunderstands them. Gods holiness is not greater than or even separate from hi love. God is love, and that is why he is holy.

You fail to see the mortal destruction is only temporary along with time itself. But at the fullness of times the destruction of death andevil will be done away with. At that time all things will be restored including everything God has destroyed by his judgments, even sodom and gomorrah (Eze. 16:53-55)

Again, i restate my case ... You do not understand that Gods wrath derives from his love and is not separate from it. He destroys so that he can renew ... And Christ will make all things new ...

Rev 21:5
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

You do not believe what Christ says, and you make him out to be a liar in as much. You do not believe Christ will make all things new, even the wicked and unbelievers who he destroys in fiery judgments. You do not believe what the bible clearly says, that the wicked and unbelievers are saved as though by fire.
Yea, right you can continue to tell yourself that lie with the lie that you wrote that Jesus has come to change the law.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-08-2009, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Florida
581 posts, read 633,221 times
Reputation: 149
[SIZE=4]com⋅mit[/SIZE]



1.to give in trust or charge; consign.2.to consign for preservation: to commit ideas to writing; to commit a poem to memory. 3.to pledge (oneself) to a position on an issue or question; express (one's intention, feeling, etc.): Asked if he was a candidate, he refused to commit himself. 4.to bind or obligate, as by pledge or assurance; pledge: to commit oneself to a promise; to be committed to a course of action. 5.to entrust, esp. for safekeeping; commend: to commit one's soul to God. 6.to do; perform; perpetrate: to commit murder; to commit an error. 7.to consign to custody: to commit a delinquent to a reformatory. 8.to place in a mental institution or hospital by or as if by legal authority: He was committed on the certificate of two psychiatrists. 9.to deliver for treatment, disposal, etc.; relegate: to commit a manuscript to the flames. 10.to send into a battle: The commander has committed all his troops to the front lines. 11.Parliamentary Procedure. to refer (a bill or the like) to a committee for consideration.
–verb (used without object) 12.to pledge or engage oneself: an athlete who commits to the highest standards.

Origin:
1350–1400; ME committen (< AF committer) < L committere, equiv. to com- com- + mittere to send, give over

Premeditated sin.
Luke 9:23 Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.
Hebrews 3:13
But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-08-2009, 07:42 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,295 posts, read 20,040,776 times
Reputation: 2110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
I don't think God is mean or vindictive I believe what He says that He will do.

It amazes me that what God did, people want to hide it under the rug. Yes, God is a merciful and loving God, but the same God can destroy you.

God is a just God and is Holy. I didn' make up the scripture of God who wiped out people and destroyed cities, but I don't try to hide it either. People who have a hard time with these scripture need to examine themselves.
It's not even a Et v UR issue i have with you , it's the gospel you believe in . Your message is Old Covenant, or a fusion of Old Covenant and New Covenant at best, with the Old Covenat law having the pre-eminence.

Why are you and the rest of the Judahasized fundamental christians so set on defending the false doctrine of ET , but never forth coming with the good news that God even loved/loves us at our worst ?.

6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-08-2009, 07:44 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,210,859 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
Yea, right you can continue to tell yourself that lie with the lie that you wrote that Jesus has come to change the law.
Mat 5:43-44
43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.(old covenant)

44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; (new covenant)



That is what jesus said, are you saying that he did not say that?


Are you not able to distinguish the difference?


Perhaps your argument is merely semantic? In which case allow me to rephrase ... Christ Changed the covenant ... Is that more agreeable? Does it really make a difference? Then so be it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-08-2009, 07:46 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,352,170 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
It's not even a Et v UR issue i have with you , it's the gospel you believe in . Your message is Old Covenant, or a fusion of Old Covenant and New Covenant at best, with the Old Covenat law having the pre-eminence.

Why are you and the rest of the Judahasized fundamental christians so set on defending the false doctrine of ET , but never forth coming with the good news that God even loved/loves us at our worst ?.

6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
I don't defend the OT, I defend the bible, the OT and the NT. I believe what Jesus says, when He says depart from me, I don't see Him saying that He will bring those people back into His presence. That is what I believe.

I don't have a problem with everyone going to heaven, and honestly I want everyone to go. But until I see or read that God will bring those very same people away from His presence to bring them back. Then I will believe it. You are free to believe what you want.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-08-2009, 07:50 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,352,170 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Mat 5:43-44
43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.(old covenant)

44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; (new covenant)



That is what jesus said, are you saying that he did not say that?


Are you not able to distinguish the difference?


Perhaps your argument is merely semantic? In which case allow me to rephrase ... Christ Changed the covenant ... Is that more agreeable? Does it really make a difference? Then so be it.
I am not saying that Jesus didn't say anything in scripture, but I know He didn't say what you said.. You said that Jesus came to change the law, and that is not in scripture. Jesus said that He came to fulfill the law, not change it.

If Jesus came to change the Law, then find scripture that says Jesus said that He was going to change the law. Because in my bible, Jesus is saying that He has not come to change the law but to fulfill it.

Yes, it does make a difference. When you say what God does or not do you could possibly be lieing and say what God didn't say. Yes, you are having to rephrase because you see your error.

I know the difference, I didn't wright law for covenant.

Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 10-08-2009 at 08:05 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-08-2009, 07:54 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,210,859 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercy777 View Post
[SIZE=4]com⋅mit[/SIZE]



1.to give in trust or charge; consign.2.to consign for preservation: to commit ideas to writing; to commit a poem to memory. 3.to pledge (oneself) to a position on an issue or question; express (one's intention, feeling, etc.): Asked if he was a candidate, he refused to commit himself. 4.to bind or obligate, as by pledge or assurance; pledge: to commit oneself to a promise; to be committed to a course of action. 5.to entrust, esp. for safekeeping; commend: to commit one's soul to God. 6.to do; perform; perpetrate: to commit murder; to commit an error. 7.to consign to custody: to commit a delinquent to a reformatory. 8.to place in a mental institution or hospital by or as if by legal authority: He was committed on the certificate of two psychiatrists. 9.to deliver for treatment, disposal, etc.; relegate: to commit a manuscript to the flames. 10.to send into a battle: The commander has committed all his troops to the front lines. 11.Parliamentary Procedure. to refer (a bill or the like) to a committee for consideration.
–verb (used without object) 12.to pledge or engage oneself: an athlete who commits to the highest standards.

Origin:
1350–1400; ME committen (< AF committer) < L committere, equiv. to com- com- + mittere to send, give over

Premeditated sin.
Luke 9:23 Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.
Hebrews 3:13
But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.

I am certainly a sinner ... And i am not worthy of Christs love or salvation. I do not consider myself a Good Christian. I struggle daily and fail more often than i care to admit here in this thread. That is between me and God but i do not deny it. I am still working on the inward man, trying to clean the inside of the cup and the plate, and i am a long way away from being Clean outwardly by my own actions. I do thank God for Christ for this very reason.

Sin is in the very members of our bodies(Rom 7) ... We will be sinners so long as we are in these corrupted bodies. We are now being renewed inwardly, and hope for the righteousness to come when we are no longer corruptible, but will have put on incorruptibility(Gal 5:5, 1Cr 15:53). I am ashamed of my sin, and i am ashamed that i fall victim to my own lusts and carnal appetites even in spite of the knowledge of the truth that i have been Given. It is not something i think is acceptable to God. And like Paul, i know myself to be wretched.

Instead of concentrating on peoples sins and shortcomings of character, i concentrate on their suffering and confusion and try to relate to them and love them regardless, even as paul says ...

1Cr 9:22
To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Though his righteousness far surpasses mine own, i take heart in his words none the less, especially knowing the thorn that was in his flesh(2Cr 12:7), which I believe to have been the root of his lagalist tendencies.

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 10-08-2009 at 08:05 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top