Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Sundance we don't have to. According to you I go to heaven. I can cuss God all day, kill Christians in the most brutal manner, no repentance. Oh I am sure I get a horrible "correction" what that correction is? I have no idea but in the end I make it to heaven
Sundance we don't have to. According to you I go to heaven. I can cuss God all day, kill Christians in the most brutal manner, no repentance. Oh I am sure I get a horrible "correction" what that correction is? I have no idea but in the end I make it to heaven
- According to most universalists you would have to repent
- According to most non universalists you can do all those things and then repent so long as you do so before you die.
So it's really a matter of whether God's mercy comes to an end.
...now, the context in which this verse lives and breathes:
1 Tomothy 4
(1) He foretelleth that in the latter times there shall be a departure from the faith. (6) And to the end that Timothy might not fail in doing his duty, he furnished him with divers precepts belonging thereto.
(1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils:
(2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared with a hot iron,
(3) Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstance from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe, and know the truth.
(4) For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
(5) For it is sanctified by the word of God, and prayer.
(6) If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith, and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
(7) But refuse prophane and old wives fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
(8) For bodiloy exercise profiteth little, but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
(9) This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation: (10) For therefore we both labor, and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is Savior of all men,specially of those that believe.
What verse 10 really means, in context:
For therefore. On account of the eternal lifewhich godliness insures...
[We labor and suffer reproach. (2 Cor.11:21)
It is the duty and practice of Christians to humble themselves, in obedience to the command and example of the Lord; yet prudence must direct us [Christians] in what we [Christians] do...even our [Christians] speaking of what God has wrought for us [Christians], and in us [Christians], and by us [Christians].
...We [Christians] labor and suffer reproach, because we[Christians] trust in the living God. Who will give us [Christians] the life He has promised, Who is the Savior of all men[yes, the Savior of all who RECEIVE HIM], preserving them[ those who RECEIVE HIM] in this life, and willing to save them[BELIEVERS] eternally. But especially - In a more eminant manner of them that believe - And so are savedeverlastingly.
If Christ be thus the Savior of all men, then much more will He be the Rewarder of those who seek and serve Him; He will provide well for those whom He has made new creatures.
(11) These things command and teach.
(12) Let no man despise thy youth, but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
(13) Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
(14) Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the Presbyterie.
(15) Meditate upon these things, give thyself wholly to them, that thy profiting may appear to all [or in all things].
(16) Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine: continue in them: for in doing this, thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
...now, the context in which this verse lives and breathes:
2 Corinthians 5
(1) That is his assured hope of immortal glory, (9) and in expectance of it, and of the general judgement, he laboreth to keep a good conscience, (12) not that he may here in boast of himself, (14) but as one that haning received life from Christ, indefoureth to live as a new creature to Christ only, (18) and by his ministry of reconciliation to reconcile others also in Christ to God.
(1) For we know, that if our [Christian] earthly house of this Tabernacle were dissolved, we [Christian's] have a building of God, an house not made with hand, eternal in the heavens.
(2) For in this we [Christian's] groan earnestly, desiring to be clothed upon with our house, which is from heaven.
(3) If so be that being clothed we [Christian's] shall not be found naked.
(4) For, we [Christian's] that are in this tabernacle, do groan, being burdened, not for that we [Christian's] would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
(5) Now He Who hath wrought us for the self same thing, is God, Who also hath given unto us the earnest of the spirit.
(6) Therefore we [Christian's] are always confident, knowing that while we [Christian's] are at home in the body, we [Christian's] are absent from the Lord.
(7) (For we [Christian's] walk by faith, not by sight.)
(8) We [Christian's] are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
(9) Wherefore we [Christian's] labor [indeavor], that whether present or absent, we [Christian's] may be acceptable of Him.
(10) For we must all [every single one of us] appear before the judgement seat of Christ, that every one [every single one of us] may receive the things done in his body, according tothat he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
(11) Knowing therefore the TERROR of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God, and I trust also, are made manifest in your consciences.
(12) For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that you may have somewhat to answer them, which glory in appearance [or in the face], and not in heart.
(13) For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
(14) For the love of Christconstraineth us, because we thus judge: that if one died for all, then were all dead.
[14 Christ died for all, because we were all dead in our sins...this did not bring salvation to all...salvation is something that must be "worked out", in fear and trembling.]
(15) And that He died for all, that they which live, should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him which died for them, and rose again.
(16) Wherefore henceforth know we [Christian's] no man, after the flesh: yea, though we [Christian's] have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [Christian's] Him no more [after the flesh].
(17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is [or, let him be] a new creature: old things past away, behold, all things are become new.
(18) And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministery of reconciliation, (19) To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses onto them, and hath committed unto us the Word of reconciliation.
What verse 19 really means, in context:
The Word of reconciliation is to persuade men to accept God's love and mercy, AND TO REPENT SO THAT HE CAN FORGIVE THEIR TRESPASSES.
The first step towards restoring peace between us and God was on God's side (John 3:16). The change therefore now to be effected must be on the part of the offending man, Go9d the offended One being already reconciled. It is man, not God, who now needs to be reconciled, and TO LAY ASIDE his emnity against God (Romans 5:10-11). ("We have received the atonement" [Greek, reconciliation], cannot mean "We have received the laying aside of our own enmity").
The new man acts upon new principles, by new rules, withnew ends, and in new company. The believer is created anew, his heart is not merely set right, but a new heart is given him. He is the workmanship of God, created in Christ Jesus unto good works. Though the same as a man, he is changed in his character and conduct.
The man who formerly saw no beauty in the Savior that he should desire Him, now loves Him above all things...By the inspiration of God, the Scriptures were written, which are the Word of reconciliation.
(20) Now then we are Ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us; we pray you in Christ's stead, that ye be reconciled to God.
(21) For He hath made Him to be sin, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.
...now, the context in which this verse lives and breathes:
Revelation 21:5
(1) A new heaven and a new earth. (10) The heavenly Jerusalem, with a full description thereof. (23) She needeth no sun, the glory of God is her light. (24) The kings of the earth bring their riches unto her.
(1) And I saw a new heaven, and a new earth: for the first heaven, and the first earth were passed away, and there was no more sea.
(2) And I John saw the Holy City, new Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
(3) And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying, Behold, the Tabernacle of God [Jesus Christ] is with men [His bride], and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them, and be their God.
(4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their [His bride's] eyes: and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
(5) And He that sat upon the throne, said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
What verse 5 really means, in context:
God Himself is describing the Church, then describes the Church.
...all things new - not recent, but changed from the old (Greek "kaina," not "nea). An earnest of this regeneration and transfiguration of nature is given already in the regenerate soul.
The new heaven and the new earth will not be separated from each other, the earth of the Saints, their glorified bodies will be heavenly. The old world, with all its troubles and tumults will have passed away. This new Jerusalem is the Church of God in tis new and perfect state, the Church triumphant! All effects of former trouble shall be done away.
Christ, Maker of all things new, IFwe are willing and desireous that the gracious Redeemer should make all things new in order of our heart and nature, He will make all things new in respect of our situation, till He has brought us to enjoy complete happiness.
The agonies and terrors of the first death will lead to the far greater terrors and agonies of the eternal second death.
(6) And He said unto me, It is done: I Am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is thirsty, of the fountain of the water of life, freely.
(7) He that overcometh, shall inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he shall be My son.
(8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the adominable, and murderers, and *****mongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liers, shall have their part in the lake which burnedth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
...now, the context in which this verse lives and breathes:
Colossians 1
(1) After salutation he thanked God for their faith, (7) confirmeth the doctrine of Epaphras, (9) Prayeth further for their increase in grace, (14) describeth the true Christ, (21) encourageth them to receive Jesus Christ, and commendeth his own ministery.
(1) Paul an Apostle of Jesus Christ, by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother:
2) To the Saints and faithful brethren in Christ, which are at Colosse, grace be unto you, and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
(3) We give thanks to God, and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
(4) Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the Saints,
(5) For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whwereof ye heard before in the Word of the truth of the Gospel,
(6) Which is come unto you as it is in all the world, and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth.
(7) As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellow servant, who is for you a faithful Minister of Christ:
(8) Who also declared unto us your love in the spirit.
(9) For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and desire that ye may be filled with the knowledge of His will, in all wisdom and spiritual understanding:
(10) That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitfull in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God:
(11) Strengthened with all might according to His glorious power, unto all patience and long suffering with joyfulness.
(12) Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us [believers] meet to be partake.. of the inheritance of the Saints in light:
(13) Who hath delivered us [believers] from the power of darkness, and hath translated us [believers] into the kingdom of His dear Son,
(14) In Whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
(15) Who is the image of the invisible God, the first born of every creature.
(16) For by Him were all things created that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or powers: all dominions, or principalities, or power: all things were created by Him, and for Him.
(17) And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.
(18) And He is the head of the body, the Church: Who is the beginning, the first born from the dead, that in all [or among all] things He might have the preeminence:
(19) For it pleased the Father that in Him should all fulness dwell,
(20) And (having made peace [or making peace] through the blood of His cross) by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself, by Him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
What verse 20 really means, in context:
...THE WHOLE CHURCH...BELIEVERS...IN THEIR HEARTS AND IN NATURE.
All who accept Christ are reconciled to Him, and found in Him, and are reconciled thus to God.
(21) And you that were sometimes alienated, and enemies in your mind [or by your mind in wicked works], yet now hath He reconciled,
(22) In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy and blameless, and unreproveable in His sight,
(23) If ye continue in the faithgrounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the Gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven, whereof I Paul am made a Minister.
(24) Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh, for His body's sake, which is the Church.
(25) Whereof I am a Minister, acording to the dispensation of God, which is given me for you, to fulfill the Word of God [or, fully to preach the Word of God]:
(26) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages, and from generations, but now is made manifest to His Saints,
(27) To whom God would make known what is the mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
(28) Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.
(29) Whereunto I also labor, striving according to His working, which worketh in me mightely.
Your lies can and will be revealed over and over again, no matter how many verses you quote out of context, and twist to make it say what you want it to say.
You and all those who teach half truths...and down right lies, twisting the Holy Word of God, will be so sorry when you stand in front of Jesus...and I feel so sorry for all of you...you still have a chance to get right with God...please begin today and turn yourselves around, there is still time for you, it is not too late...I pray for you all.
In Christ's love,
Verna.
Goodness Verna, we can read the bible ourselves you don't have to post the whole thing ... You could just as well post what you believe those verses mean in context and it would make it allot easier to sort through your post in order to answer it in a more concise fashion. All i can do is attempt to answer what you believe the context to express and its bearing on the verses which i believe refer to universal reconciliation.
First let me say the way you wrote this may seem really intellectual and or whatever your intent may have been in writing it this way ... But really its just confusing. Ill try to piece together what you are trying to say but you make it very difficult to do so because of the way your wrote it. Maybe that was the purpose?
Remember ...
Pro 10:19
In the abundance of words transgression ceaseth not, And whoso is restraining his lips is wise.
Quote:
What verse 10 really means, in context:
For therefore. On account of the eternal lifewhich godliness insures...
Eternal life does not appear in the Greek. No one has eternal life but God unless you believe in the eternal preexistence of human souls. Origen did, but i do not. I do not see any scriptural backing for it but who knows i am still learning. However if we did not preexist the creation of the world then eternal life is a misnomer ...
Not even everlasting life is found in the original Greek but is the mistranslation of the phrase aionios zoe, which should be translated Life pertaining to the ages, or age-during life, or life in the ages etc ...
Quote:
[We labor and suffer reproach. (2 Cor.11:21)
It is the duty and practice of Christians to humble themselves, in obedience to the command and example of the Lord; yet prudence must direct us [Christians] in what we [Christians] do...even our [Christians] speaking of what God has wrought for us [Christians], and in us [Christians], and by us [Christians].
I agree with this but i don't see how it changes the plain and simpple surface meaning of 1 Tim 4:10
Quote:
...We [Christians] labor and suffer reproach, because we[Christians] trust in the living God. Who will give us [Christians] the life He has promised, Who is the Savior of all men[yes, the Savior of all who RECEIVE HIM], preserving them[ those who RECEIVE HIM] in this life, and willing to save them[BELIEVERS] eternally. But especially - In a more eminant manner of them that believe - And so are savedeverlastingly.
Now here you are adding to what the bible say and you are saying that somehow the verses surrounding verse 10 limmit salvation to only those that believe. Of course if that was the case then Paul would have been in error to begin with for writing that God is the savior of all men. It would only be confusing the issue if only the believers where saved. But the fact is that not only are the believers saved, so are unbelievers. But their salvation is not the same as the salvation of the believers. The salvation of the believers is by faith, while the salvation of the wicked and unbelieving is by fire.
Again to make myself clear, all you seem to be doing is adding in your rhetorical slant to try and make it seems as if 1 Tim 4:10 doesn't actually mean what is clearly says, but you are not fooling me with an abundance of words.
Quote:
If Christ be thus the Savior of all men, then much more will He be the Rewarder of those who seek and serve Him; He will provide well for those whom He has made new creatures.
Indeed, the reward of them that believe which the word specially(malista) is referring to is that our quality of life in the ages is greater in our knowing God and Christ whom he sent ... We are given the peace the surpasses understanding here and now, and the joy of the lord becomes our strength here and now(Neh 8:10). Also we that believe shall take part in the first resurrection and will rule with Christ for a thousand years as kings and priests. None of this however disqualifies the salvation of unbelievers in the fullness of times. So indeed God IS the savior of all men ... Not just some men. But the manner of salvation of believers and unbelievers and the wicked is different.
Quote:
What verse 19 really means, in context:
The Word of reconciliation is to persuade men to accept God's love and mercy, AND TO REPENT SO THAT HE CAN FORGIVE THEIR TRESPASSES.
The first step towards restoring peace between us and God was on God's side (John 3:16). The change therefore now to be effected must be on the part of the offending man, Go9d the offended One being already reconciled. It is man, not God, who now needs to be reconciled, and TO LAY ASIDE his emnity against God (Romans 5:10-11). ("We have received the atonement" [Greek, reconciliation], cannot mean "We have received the laying aside of our own enmity").
First of all God doesn't need to be reconciled to himself.
Second ... We do not choose God he chooses us. We are elected and faith was given us(Eph 2:8). The idea that you make the decision to choose God is fallacious at its core. He works in you to will and to do of his good pleasure without which like all others who do not believe, you would not believe(Phl 2:13). This is a common fallacy in fundamental Christianity ... Those who do not believe God has not elected and has not revealed himself to them, so in effect they are hardened(Rom 9:18) ... Romans chapter 9 goes all out in describing the fact that faith in God and in Christ as well as unbelief are due to Gods election ... I will refrain from quoting from it as this post will already be far to long but you can refer to it if you doubt my words.
Third ... Christ promises that he will make all things new(Rev 21:5) ... That means everone and everything in creation. It is only after the unbelievers are resurrected and purified and renewed by Gods fiery judgments that they will be able to truely confess that Christ is lord to the glory of the father and worship him in joy and in righteousness and swear fealty to him ... (Isa 45:23,Rom 14:11,Psa 67:4,Psa 66:4,Isa 26:9)
Quote:
The new man acts upon new principles, by new rules, withnew ends, and in new company. The believer is created anew, his heart is not merely set right, but a new heart is given him. He is the workmanship of God, created in Christ Jesus unto good works. Though the same as a man, he is changed in his character and conduct.
Indeed ... but neither this or any of your above explanations of the context disqualifies the salvation or reconciliation of all in the fullness of times ... It doesn't change the plain surface meaning of verse 19 or 1 Tim 4:10 ... Which is that God in Christ is reconciling the whole world to himself and is the savior of all men. Some by faith through election, some by fire ...
Quote:
The man who formerly saw no beauty in the Savior that he should desire Him, now loves Him above all things...By the inspiration of God, the Scriptures were written, which are the Word of reconciliation.
Indeed, but again this does nothing to disqualify the simple and wonderful fact that God is the savior of all men and is in Christ reconciling the whole creation to himself.
Quote:
What verse 5 really means, in context:
God Himself is describing the Church, then describes the Church.
Okay here you go adding words to the bible, thankfully you used brackets to denote the fact but it is misleading and unscriptural nonetheless. This is a disingenuous and dangerous practice ... Remember the warning?
Rev 22:18
"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: ... "
Quote:
...all things new - not recent, but changed from the old (Greek "kaina," not "nea). An earnest of this regeneration and transfiguration of nature is given already in the regenerate soul.
The new heaven and the new earth will not be separated from each other, the earth of the Saints, their glorified bodies will be heavenly. The old world, with all its troubles and tumults will have passed away. This new Jerusalem is the Church of God in tis new and perfect state, the Church triumphant! All effects of former trouble shall be done away.
Christ, Maker of all things new, IFwe are willing and desireous that the gracious Redeemer should make all things new in order of our heart and nature, He will make all things new in respect of our situation, till He has brought us to enjoy complete happiness.
The agonies and terrors of the first death will lead to the far greater terrors and agonies of the eternal second death.
This is your rhetorical spin that has nothing to do with the context of chapter 22 or the plain surface meaning of what Christ said when he said the he will make all things new. Eternal has already been explained is not the proper translation of aion or its adjective forms aionios or aionion. Aion means age, and aionios means pertaining to the ages, age-during, age abiding, age enduring ... etc.
Death will be destroyed and will not exist for ever, neither the first or the second death.(1Cr 15:54-55) Death will have no victory over any part of Gods creation.
Quote:
What verse 20 really means, in context:
...THE WHOLE CHURCH...BELIEVERS...IN THEIR HEARTS AND IN NATURE.
All who accept Christ are reconciled to Him, and found in Him, and are reconciled thus to God.
"All things" in heaven and earth, not "his church" in heaven and earth. Again you are both adding and taking away from the words of the bible instead of accepting what it is saying plain and simple. "All things" does not mean "a few things" or "only the church" ... no matter how much you want to believe that it does, or how you try to spin and twist the meaning of it using rhetorical manipulation ...
It is so obvious how you are only twisting the facts to suit you personal belief ... I am sure that i am not the only one who can see this as it is as plain as the nose on my face, and as plain as the words of the bible which plainly say that ...
God is the savior of all men ...
God is in Christ reconciling the world(kosmos - whole creation) to himself ...
Christ will make all things new ...
God is reconciling all things whether in heaven or in earth to himself ...
The fact remains the same now and for ever ... Nothing you can say or do will ever change that ... One day you will understand, and we will all rejoice together ... Even every person who was ever created ... And every angel ta' boot ...
Amen and Selah ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 10-09-2009 at 08:21 PM..
Goodness Verna, we can read the bible ourselves you dont have to post the whole thing ...
It is so obvious how you are only twisting the facts to suit you personal belief ... I am sure that i am not the only one who can see this as it is as plain as the nose on my face, and as plain as the words of the bible which plainly say that ...
God is the savior of all men ...
God is in Christ reconciling the world(kosmos - whole creation) to himself ...
Christ will make all things new ...
God is reconciling all things whether in heaven or in earth to himself ...
The fact remains the same now and for ever ... Nothing you can say or do will ever change that ... One day you will understand, and we will all rejoice together ... Even every person who was ever created ... And every angel ta' boot ...
Amen and Selah ...
Great post... I added some emphasis on a particular phrase that I agree with. It is amazing that it is not plain as day to the other poster.
Sundance we don't have to. According to you I go to heaven. I can cuss God all day, kill Christians in the most brutal manner, no repentance. Oh I am sure I get a horrible "correction" what that correction is? I have no idea but in the end I make it to heaven
The wicked and will be reconciled, but so as by fire. If you think that Gods Fiery judgments are not very unpleasant then you are deceiving yourself.
Here is my two cents ...
I have heard this argument time and again by fundamentalists ...
They start with the spiritual terror and threaten you with eternal torture ...
Then they say well if you're right we are all saved and i win, but if i'm right i will be saved and you will be tortured for ever/obliterated ...
Remember this argument is the same for every religious fundamentalist, whether Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, etc. ...
The fundamentalists call this pragmatism, I call it cowardice and bigotry and spiritual terrorism ...
Your lies can and will be revealed over and over again, no matter how many verses you quote out of context, and twist to make it say what you want it to say.
You and all those who teach half truths...and down right lies, twisting the Holy Word of God, will be so sorry when you stand in front of Jesus...and I feel so sorry for all of you...you still have a chance to get right with God...please begin today and turn yourselves around, there is still time for you, it is not too late...I pray for you all.
In Christ's love,
Verna.
Oh Verna, i was raised believing the same false religion you now believe in.
I can tell you this for sure ...
I will never again be bullied into believing your false doctrine of demons and your false religion of everlasting sin and death. I have been set free from the bondage of the spirit of hate and violence and greed that fills your heart along with all other people who cling to these sadistic and abominable heresies ...
And i will await the day that the lord finally reveals the truth to you and softens your heart in great anticipation of the love we will finally share at that time in Christ ...
Amen and Selah ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 10-09-2009 at 08:44 PM..
Oh Verna, i was raised believing the same false religion you now believe in.
I can tell you this for sure ...
I will never again be bullied into believing your false doctrine of demons and your false religion of everlasting sin and death. I have been set free from the bondage of the spirit of hate and violence and greed that fills your heart along with all other people who cling to these sadistic and abominable heresies ...
And i will await the day that the lord finally reveals the truth to you and softens your heart in great anticipation of the love we will finally share at that time in Christ ...
Amen and Selah ...
Quote:
Verna, i was raised believing the same false religion you now believe in.
And all you've done is trade one lie for a bigger one.
Yes, there is no hell burning with fire that 'never goes out' and leads to "never ending punishment." However the Word does teach God will have vengence on His enemies.
What you fail to realize... for those, who never had a chance to hear with understanding the equalizer is the Millennium.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
