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Old 10-09-2009, 05:00 AM
 
Location: East Coast
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8And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. 9An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. 10But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. 11Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christa the Lord. 12This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”
13Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying,
14“Glory to God in the highest
14`Glory in the highest to God, and upon earth peace, among men -- good will.

The things of God appear at times to be terrifying , why is this ?

Simply because our concept of God and the things of God have been warped by the traditions and doctrines of men and by the mind of the religious man who has never come into the reality of the true nature and character of God.

Is it any wonder man has a problem of God being a God of unconditional love and infinite grace beyond measure ?, when the gospel of fundamental christianity is accompanied by a message of terror , namely ET.

How can the fundamental christian like the angels in this portion of scripture say to the recipient of the the message "Do not be afraid" i bring good news of great joy, when the message they bring is one of terror and condemnation ?.

The angels angels brought and announced good news of great joy , so it was no problem for the recipient to believe and receive the message.

What a wonderful God He is
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Old 10-09-2009, 05:27 AM
 
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Kind of a stretch....
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Old 10-09-2009, 05:43 AM
 
Location: East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Kind of a stretch....
Was the good news the angels announced terrifying ? No

Is the gospel of the fundamental church terrifying ? yes.

Is there any similarity between the gospel announced by the angels and the one announced by fundamental christianity ? None whatsoever.

One sets you free , the other puts you in greater bondage than you were already in, and but for the grace of God you would never know it.
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Old 10-09-2009, 05:47 AM
 
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Did Peter always understand or even know what he was saying?....No

Do people that don't believe in Hell understand or even know what they are saying?.....No!

Hey I guess you are right, it's not a stretch at all to lift up one teaching and compare it to another totally unconnected to it!
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Old 10-09-2009, 05:55 AM
 
Location: East Coast
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Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Did Peter always understand or even know what he was saying?....No

Do people that don't believe in Hell understand or even know what they are saying?.....No!

Hey I guess you are right, it's not a stretch at all to lift up one teaching and compare it to another totally unconnected to it!
Alan It's not a teaching it's a message of good news towards all men .

A mesage given to angels by God to take to the world .

Did the angels forget to mention Eternal Torment ?
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Old 10-09-2009, 05:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post

Did the angels forget to mention Eternal Torment ?
You cant support a teaching, or attack a teaching, based only on the lack of it being listed in one verse of the Bible picked at random..
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Old 10-09-2009, 06:07 AM
 
Location: East Coast
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Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
You cant support a teaching, or attack a teaching, based only on the lack of it being listed in one verse of the Bible picked at random..
It's not a teaching , it's the good news.

If i tell you , you have won the lottery do you receive it as a teaching or do you receive it as a message of good news.

The good news is God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself . There are hundreds of scriptures to support the good news that it's is good news and not terrifying news.
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Old 10-09-2009, 06:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post

Is it any wonder man has a problem of God being a God of unconditional love and infinite grace beyond measure ?, when the gospel of fundamental christianity is accompanied by a message of terror , namely ET.

How can the fundamental christian like the angels in this portion of scripture say to the recipient of the the message "Do not be afraid" i bring good news of great joy, when the message they bring is one of terror and condemnation ?.
June initially read the OP and thought to herself "Yeah, just June's been kinda wondering about that one herself." However, she then pondered it a bit (just a bit) and came to the following conclusion:

There is clearly a difference between an unexpected manifestation of something divine (which most assuredly could have the capacity to scare an individual) and the all too familiar and expected nature of denominational disagreements.

June has just never understood the whole fear aspect in any of this. --But then again, the little atheist herself has never quite been able to grasp that whole 'my-denomination-is-the-right-one' aspect, either. June's an equal opportunity heathen. But here's the thing: After a long time reading threads on this forum, June has come to the following: It's a rather well known fact of psychology that fear is not as effective a motivator as it would seem. Fear may initially motivate a person to act, but it tends to be short lived and does not endure over the long term. That's because once the fear factor wears off, human beings tend to resume whatever their baseline behavior was previous to the fear.

Now don't get June wrong. If June had woken up this morning, only to find some sort of divine manifestation standing at the foot of her bed, instructing her that "Time's up, June! I'm God, I'm real, so ya better get on the ball and cut the crap!" then you can darn well bet that would have scared the living bejeebers out of poor June! And who knows? Given that it would most definately challenge, if not rock June's world, she'd probably end up being a believer once the prescription medication she'd have to take to calm a full blown panic attack wore off. On the other hand, after all this time on this forum, in truth June would have to say the threat of her going to hell doesn't quite raise her anxiety level quite so much.

Most of all, though, June has the funny feeling that the real message isn't one of terror and fear, although some may feel it to be very valid, very real, and even at times, very useful. June can respect that. However, she also can't help but feel that even the most loyal of individuals who adhere to eternal torment and damnation tend to know that. It makes absolutely no sense to this little heathen that an entire doctrine would be soley based on that one aspect. Clearly it is a part of, and a very real aspect of a denominational belief, but it's not "the whole story." June also realizes that there is a reason for that particular aspect of that denominational belief. June tends to think that when it is made to become the central focus, the rest of the denominational belief gets pushed aside. Which is too bad, as there is so much more than just that one aspect.

In short, what June is trying to say is that you all are reading the same NT. (Different translations, granted, but it's still the same content.) At the end of the day, we can all turn to those passages that bespeak the loving aspect of God, and in so doing, put the "wrath and eternal torment" in it's rightful context.

At least June can.

It's not all that hard.

June wonders why that is.

--But perhaps if she had woken up this morning with that Divine Manifestation standing at the foot of her bed, she'd be posting from a dramatically different mindset!

Take gentle care.
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Old 10-09-2009, 06:32 AM
 
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the angels didnt drive a car, therefore Cars are not Christian...

The angels did not ride in a boat, therefore boats are not Christian.

The angels did not talk about the Bible, therefore the Bible is not Christian.

The angels did not teach about paying my taxes, therefore Christians should not pay the tax

The angels did not drink wine, therefore drinking wine is not Christian....

The angels did not talk about the "Good News" that the Vikings won their last game, therfore football is not Christian.


There is no limit to the things I can connect, if my only rule is that the two things must have little to do with each other....LOL
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Old 10-09-2009, 06:47 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,282 posts, read 20,021,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
the angels didnt drive a car, therefore Cars are not Christian...

The angels did not ride in a boat, therefore boats are not Christian.

The angels did not talk about the Bible, therefore the Bible is not Christian.

The angels did not teach about paying my taxes, therefore Christians should not pay the tax

The angels did not drink wine, therefore drinking wine is not Christian....

The angels did not talk about the "Good News" that the Vikings won their last game, therfore football is not Christian.


There is no limit to the things I can connect, if my only rule is that the two things must have little to do with each other....LOL
LOL



We are talking about the annoucement of God's heart towards mankind .

Do you really think the most important announcement of the age would leave out the warning of ET ? was this an oversight of God ? .

Why is it fundamental christians cannot accept the good news as being just good news ?.
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