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Old 10-10-2009, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 2,954,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
People are simply waking up to the control measures of organized religion and institutionalized Christianity which are used to threaten and control through fear. People are beginning to see the wolf in sheep's clothing and are abandoning the the sinking ship of the false traditions of men.
Too much judging, hellfire and brimstone, and not enough love thy neighbor as thyself do you think?
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Old 10-10-2009, 05:47 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,686,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
June didn't you learn anything from Beloved57's posts .Only joking.

I can only speak for myself , but i certainly do not believe you are a child of the devil.

Sorry if this is off topic , couldn't resist.

Looks like June found that bullet she thought she dodged.
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Old 10-10-2009, 06:02 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,224 posts, read 19,996,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Looks like June found that bullet she thought she dodged.
Yea i think she has . LoL
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Old 10-10-2009, 06:20 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,203,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
Too much judging, hellfire and brimstone, and not enough love thy neighbor as thyself do you think?
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Old 10-10-2009, 06:35 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,203,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
Please tell June that she is having a visual hallucination.

Sometimes even June has to wonder what the motivation is behind basic human interactions. Sometimes June just has to wonder (within the context of the OP, no less!) what it is that drives the hearts, minds (and intentions contained within both) of Christians.

Isn't it somehow ironic that in a thread asking about the diminishing numbers of Christians, and what might or might not account for that, or be done about it, June is told that she, along with others, may as well be an atheist?

June is.

However.....

Fundamentalist: You know darn well that June has a "soft spot" in her heart for you. But truly, have you ever stopped to think about what you posted, above? Do you not see the inherent irony in it against the backdrop of the OP? You see, apparently people are leaving the Church. Apparently that is a problem and a real and vital concern for many. But here is what crossed June's mind when stumbling upon this thread:

Within the overall context of what accounts for the numbers of people who are leaving the Church, it could conversely be asked what accounts for individuals not replacing them in number. Would there not be reason to think that new members would be joining, such that a more well rounded representation in numbers, statistically, could be shown to offset that? --And if not, why not?

Granted, the above may merely be an "academic question." June wonders, though. June wonders at the notion of her reading (on this forum, especially) that she may as well remain an atheist. Okay. --But granted, June's gotta be honest and tell you here: It's somewhat confusing. I mean, if you want June to remain an atheist, okay. But even so, June can't help but find that a little...well....odd.

Lastly, in spite of herself, June just needed to point this one out:

June had no idea that she was a " child of the devil."

-June can only imagine how encouraging nonbelievers who might otherwise have considered Christianity might find that...

But so much for the decline in numbers...

But then, in pondering the OP, June again needs to go back to her very first statement in this post, where she wondered about human motivation, and think about it within the context of what you state, below:




-And ask herself how motivated she would ever be to become one.

You are absolutely right: Anyone could be a member of a church.

Thank God for that.


Take gentle thoughtful care,

June: Alleged Child of the Devil
Isn't it pathetic that so many "Christians" believe that you are going to be tortured by their God for ever and ever if you remain in doubt or indecision about converting to the Faith until you die? So if you die tonight, all these happy fundamentalist Christians who pretend to love you and care about you will just right you off and say that you deserved it. They wont say it now to your face, because they want Brownie points and a gold star from Jesus for trying to convert you and they will be just a nice as peaches to your face, but will desert you when all is said and done if you just happen to croak before choosing to believe.

This is what Fundamentalists are like ...

While your alive if you don't believe they say... "Oh June we love you please accept Jeus as your savior because he loves you more than you know " ... However when you die if you never chose to believe they will say ... "Burn in hell devil spawn!"
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Old 10-10-2009, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
1,418 posts, read 1,810,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Consider:

my Lutheran church has just passed some type of new rule that allows openly Gay preachers to remain in office.
In fact its worse that that too, to even question the position of the church now on the Gays gets you in trouble.

Now do we Lutherans have a new rule allowing currently active child molesters to be preachers?...NO!

Do we have a rule allowing currently active and unrepentant sinners, (thieves, rapists, murders) to stay in leadership positions?...no!

It only the gays Vicket...

Only the Gays have twisted their way into getting a whole Christian denomination to turn it's back on the Bible in this manner.

Thus the need to have good Christians like myself who are also Lutheran to stand up and tell the greater church body that something evil has come to us Lutherans.,.... known as "Liberalism"
In all respect...everything else you mentioned here is ILLEGAL (rapists, thieves, molesters) so, of course they would be removed from church leadership. It is not illegal to be gay. Therefore 'only the gays' would reasonably be treated differently within that group.

If keeping a sinner in a leadership position is "turning its back on the Bible", then EVERY church is guilty.

Just because someone else's sin offends you does not make it worse than your (or my) sin.

Please understand I am not attacking your right to believe as you wish...only stating why I am not comfortable with this if it is an accepted thinking within a church.
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Old 10-10-2009, 07:08 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,203,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicket View Post
In all respect...everything else you mentioned here is ILLEGAL (rapists, thieves, molesters) so, of course they would be removed from church leadership. It is not illegal to be gay. Therefore 'only the gays' would reasonably be treated differently within that group.

If keeping a sinner in a leadership position is "turning its back on the Bible", then EVERY church is guilty.

Just because someone else's sin offends you does not make it worse than your (or my) sin.

Please understand I am not attacking your right to believe as you wish...only stating why I am not comfortable with this if it is an accepted thinking within a church.
I understand and agree to a large extent. My only addition would be when a gay man or women would flaunt their sin. I have plenty of sin and i am in no way better than someone who is gay. My sins are no less sinful ... But i don't go around flaunting my sin. I am ashamed of it and i fall prey to it do to my fleshly weaknesses, but i dont try to get others to accept it as if it were not sin ... I keep my sin to myself as much as possible and struggle with it daily. I confide in those whom i trust, but i don't try to justify my sins as much as i express my difficulties with them.
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Old 10-10-2009, 07:41 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,488,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicket View Post
In all respect...everything else you mentioned here is ILLEGAL .
actually what does it matter?

I mean, Christian bible teachings are not left up to the congress right?
The bible is not translated by a legal system.

The bible has a teaching on sin.
The Bible has a teaching on who should be in church leadership
The bible has a teaching on being gay.

If a church wants to be known as "Christian" then at some point they have to follow the bible's teachings.
The Lutheran church no longer follows the Bible's teachings...thus by what right do we now claim to be yet a "Christian" church?

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Old 10-10-2009, 07:51 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,488,995 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by vicket View Post
If keeping a sinner in a leadership position is ....
Perhaps I need to share again what is truly going on within my church...

as of right now, the official church teaching goes against the Bible.
The new official position is that being gay is not a sin.

They do not even attempt to back this new rule up with a bible verse, and actually go so far as to suggest the Bible is not the final answer in matters of sin.

This is not the same as allowing a known "sinner" to remain in leadership....
No its worse that that.
Its more like now not calling a known thief a sinner.
Or like saying that a child molester now has nothing to feel shame about.

I believe this form of advanced liberalism is also clearly behind the loss of church membership in my denomination, and is one of the reasons people stop going to church.

On this forum many people say that the reason the church is dieing is that people reject the "Fire and Brimstone" message....this is wrong!

The truth is, that due to the rise of liberalism there is no "Fire and Brimstone" message in the churches anymore.

The new message is , "Dont judge, Im OK, you are OK, The Bible is a myth"

and because that message is not found in the bible, the Bible is being tossed out.

So the reason people are stopping to go to church is not because the church is too strict, rather the reason is that the church is becoming farther and farther from what people are seeking...

People seek truth
The liberal message is that there is no truth
This is why people reject the modern church,,,for it no longer has the message of truth, the message of what truly is the difference between right and wrong.
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Old 10-10-2009, 08:08 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,455,222 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Fundamentalist: You know darn well that June has a "soft spot" in her heart for you. But truly, have you ever stopped to think about what you posted, above? Do you not see the inherent irony in it against the backdrop of the OP? You see, apparently people are leaving the Church. Apparently that is a problem and a real and vital concern for many. But here is what crossed June's mind when stumbling upon this thread.......
June I can only go from scripture, I can't worry about human statistic or human ideals to draw people into church. Our job is not to bring people into the church, that is the Holy Spirit's role. Our role is to give you the truth-the gospel, THAT'S IT! I know you think I don't sound loving sometimes but the truth is love. I must give the truth because if I didn't then that is not loving

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 10-10-2009 at 08:20 PM..
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