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Old 10-10-2009, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 2,963,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
....People seek truth
The liberal message is that there is no truth
This is why people reject the modern church,,,for it no longer has the message of truth, the message of what truly is the difference between right and wrong.
Thank-you for sharing that honest message about what has been happening in your church Alan, I'm sure it's not something you ever wanted to encounter or report.

My mother was a faithful Roman Catholic and it caused her and I'm sure many of her generation a great deal of pain when the huge changes emanated from the Vatican councils a few decades ago. Recent popes though have tended to draw a pretty firm line they don't cross over when it comes to moral values, I admire them for that.

I've read that liberals have been gaining power in many churches for several decades, as they obviously have in universities, major media, and other secular organzations, I don't think your church is the exception. You may have zeroed right in on possibly the major cause for the loss of interest in organized religion.

It's good to read though that most Christians are not losing their faith in God but are turning to home study and worship, smaller groups, etc. as more fulfilling and meaningful than the structured experience paid professional clergy are providing.

We sure take a beating in this lifetime! I'm glad our Heavenly Father has provided a place of rest for us when we finally get to lay these weary bones aside for a while...
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Old 10-10-2009, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
1,418 posts, read 1,818,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Perhaps I need to share again what is truly going on within my church...

as of right now, the official church teaching goes against the Bible.
The new official position is that being gay is not a sin.

The new message is , "Dont judge, Im OK, you are OK, The Bible is a myth"

The liberal message is that there is no truth
This is why people reject the modern church,,,for it no longer has the message of truth, the message of what truly is the difference between right and wrong.
I changed your quote only to make it shorter- not to lessen the importance of everything you had to say. I feel you have a genuine concern for the path of your church. My original response was to address why 'I' don't feel comfortable in church.
No- I don't think the church's message should be watered down to where there are no sins..but I feel that one sin (homosexuality) has been elevated above others. It seems that many Christians (especially male) are disgusted by that 'sin'.
My feeling is that sex is disgusting and a sin when there is unbridled lust (or an unwilling or underage partner) and no commitment involved.
If marriage negates the sin for hetero couples and gays can't get married, what option do they have?
(This comes from my opinion that people are BORN gay. It's NOT a sin to BE gay, only to act on it inappropriately.)
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Old 10-10-2009, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,471,511 times
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Where have all the Christians gone?


The ones that I know, are at their post, sounding the alarm! COME! Today is the day of salvation! Tomorrow's not promised to a soul!
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Old 10-10-2009, 10:10 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,500,592 times
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I know of no church that has allowed unrepentant Gays to be in leadership that has not also seen a drop in membership.

While this or that church may have it's ups and downs in its membership, the over-all path has been downward as more and more liberal teachings have come into the church.

Where is this headed?

In the future I have no doubt that soon my church may pass a rule that allows sex between men and very young boys, even while in church.

and,
I have no doubt that we may live to see rape of a pre-teen girl (age 4 or 5 or even lower) changed from being seen as a crime and a sin, to being just normal sex between consenting "partners"

However by that time, the church will be empty, the lights will be turned off, and all the christians left that used to go to that church will be home...a few will carry on their faith in front of their computers, but the "Body of Christ" that used to actually show up and do things for people will come to an end.

Replaced by a unconnected collection of believers,
who share very little in common,
do not know where each other live,
do not know each others real name,
and never show up as a body to do things.
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Old 10-10-2009, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
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^^WHy do you keep linking homosexuality with child molesting? The two are unrelated.
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Old 10-10-2009, 10:21 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,706,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
I know of no church that has allowed unrepentant Gays to be in leadership that has not also seen a drop in membership.

While this or that church may have it's ups and downs in its membership, the over-all path has been downward as more and more liberal teachings have come into the church.

Where is this headed?
In the future I have no doubt that soon my church may pass a rule that allows sex between men and very young boys, even while in church.

and,
I have no doubt that we may live to see rape of a pre-teen girl (age 4 or 5 or even lower) changed from being seen as a crime and a sin, to being just normal sex between consenting "partners"

The drop in membership doesn't mean anything, the rejection of something has no actual bearing on it's truth. In fact it could be construed that the more liberal teaching are more true to scripture and that is why people leave as they cannot handle the truth.

That is one of the fallacies of religion, that a big large huge booming church membership actually means it's teaching hard core grounded scriptural truth. It doesn't mean a thing.
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Old 10-10-2009, 10:28 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,500,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicket View Post
^^WHy do you keep linking homosexuality with child molesting? The two are unrelated.
they are "different" but they are related in that both are sins.
Both need to be attacked with the Sword of the text, and driven from the position they seem to seek.

There is no reason to be happy that your church has taken a strong stand against one, but allowed the other to go on within church leadership while people looked the other way .

So I guess what Im saying is that right now, this very hour, we are watching a whole Christian denomination sink out of sight.
Not because of "Fire and Brimstone" sermons against sin, but rather because most people reject the growing liberalism that is sweeping into positions of leadership while it rejects the complete bible as myth.

That is the reason the many good traditional churches are empty.
They are empty because they have left the Bible behind in the rush to push their pro-gay agendas.
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Old 10-10-2009, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
1,418 posts, read 1,818,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
The drop in membership doesn't mean anything, the rejection of something has no actual bearing on it's truth.
Can't rep ya so I'll quote ya!
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Old 10-10-2009, 10:37 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,500,592 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
That is one of the fallacies of religion, that a big large huge booming church membership actually means it's teaching hard core grounded scriptural truth. It doesn't mean a thing.
I cant speak for everyone or every church, but I have been to about every type of church you can list, and I have come to one finding over and over.

Liberal churches are dieing, conservative churches are growing.

The most liberal church I have been a member of, turns out to be the Episcopal church.
Back when I was a member (The 60s) they were a stiff, and very conservative church , but they had a growing membership and were a strong voice in the city.

Then slowly they adopted the pro-gay agenda, and slowly they watched the church empty out.

Right now, my old Episcopal church has trouble keeping the lights on in the winter because they are so few members left.
But they have a openly gay minster, so they have ended up where they were headed I guess, (pro-Gay and very much dead)

I went to a very Conservative church in Washington, their membership is still growing , and they have had to split off and start 12 smaller churches due to their not being enough room for everyone.
The reason?
They teach fire and brimstone, and that is what people are seeking....
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Old 10-10-2009, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
1,418 posts, read 1,818,781 times
Reputation: 1491
Again, Alan- I mean this with no disrespect...but the growth in conservatism is a movement of FEAR.
In times of great change (throughout world history) people cling to the religion they know. It's no different now than when native peoples gave sacrifices to protect them from evil spirits. It didn't mean that the religion they were comfortable with was right.
Things ALWAYS change. Only God remains the same. Don't confuse religion with God.
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