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Old 10-12-2009, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,398,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
The knowledge of God was everywhere...Magii...Nebuchadnezar...Melchzedeck.. .even Pontious Pilate's wife...all pagan religions were derived from the One True God that began the cosmos and warped, just as Universalism is doing to pure Christianity. The very reason they were warped were ordained by God and were a part of His plan that eventually lead to the cross.
I am not able to follow what you are saying here. Apparently I am misunderstanding your post, or you were misunderstanding my post. Either way, I can't really respond.
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Old 10-12-2009, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,292,342 times
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Katonjj,

You are a universalist...so that means that all mankind will be allowed to enter the kindgom of Heaven right? I argue that they won't. Christ came for everybody, that we agree with, But not everybody will be given an eternal life with Christ. am I correct in how I see your paradigm?

Please correct me if I am wrong. And please, don't take any offense personally, I am attacking the view, not you, although you present the view, so you are in the line of fire LOL
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Old 10-12-2009, 08:53 PM
 
37,587 posts, read 25,288,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I am not able to follow what you are saying here. Apparently I am misunderstanding your post, or you were misunderstanding my post. Either way, I can't really respond.
He appears to be a fundamentalist, fatalistic, Calvinist, Preterist, ET'er, Kat . . . my best guess. Oh . . . and a literalist too. Sorry but he seems to want to paint you with the mystic brush . . . so he can ignore you as "demon-possessed" if he makes that stick. The primitive superstitious beliefs of the 1st century and earlier have been hardened into concrete because they studiously rejected ANY revision for 2000+ years of human civilization and knowledge . . . and praised remaining ignorant of its implications as righteous faith in the face of the "false wisdom of man." Hallelujah.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,398,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Katonjj,

You are a universalist...so that means that all mankind will be allowed to enter the kindgom of Heaven right? I argue that they won't. Christ came for everybody, that we agree with, But not everybody will be given an eternal life with Christ. am I correct in how I see your paradigm?

Please correct me if I am wrong. And please, don't take any offense personally, I am attacking the view, not you, although you present the view, so you are in the line of fire LOL
To clarify:
Everyone is saved. Jesus did his part and shed his blood for the covenant. The kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God are another matter. If you continue in your sin.. even though you are saved... you cannot say it will be heaven. If you forsake sin and follow Christ you can count your life as heaven. BUT everyone is saved. There is no Hell. There is enough grace to cover all sin and:
Psalm 106:45 And He remembered His covenant for their sake, And relented according to the greatness of His lovingkindness.

His covenant is for our good and will always result in good. Hell is not good and does not produce goodness.
It glories Him more when we recognize we are saved from living in sin. His grace shows his greatness and lovingkindness. Hell does not.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,398,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
He appears to be a fundamentalist, fatalistic, Calvinist, Preterist, ET'er, Kat . . . my best guess. Oh . . . and a literalist too. Sorry but he seems to want to paint you with the mystic brush . . . so he can ignore you as "demon-possessed" if he makes that stick. The primitive superstitious beliefs of the 1st century and earlier have been hardened into concrete because they studiously rejected ANY revision for 2000+ years of human civilization and knowledge . . . and praised remaining ignorant of its implications as righteous faith in the face of the "false wisdom of man." Hallelujah.
Well... when you are stuck in the 1st century I can see that (futurist) but it boggles the mind how you can be preterist and an ETer... or futurist and a URer... But then again I came to each one at a different time: First Preterism then CU. But he does me no harm.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,292,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
He appears to be a fundamentalist, fatalistic, Calvinist, Preterist, ET'er, Kat . . . my best guess. Oh . . . and a literalist too. Sorry but he seems to want to paint you with the mystic brush . . . so he can ignore you as "demon-possessed" if he makes that stick. The primitive superstitious beliefs of the 1st century and earlier have been hardened into concrete because they studiously rejected ANY revision for 2000+ years of human civilization and knowledge . . . and praised remaining ignorant of its implications as righteous faith in the face of the "false wisdom of man." Hallelujah.
My brother...you have some nerve attempting to understand what I am thinking. Did I attack you, or the view? Not once did I attack you personally...yet you feed on this garbage don't you.....demon possessed? LOL...anything but that. I don't think UR is demon possessed at all, but rather misguided, in error, as the sect you represent.

Good grief.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,292,342 times
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The part I am trying to understand here is the no existence of Hell doctrine. Rev 19, 20, and 21 are clear cut from the vantage point of the ressurecctiion of the dead and, the redemption of the saints, OT and the 1st century prior to that event, the overall covenant in Christ from His death to the Parousia (Rev 20), and Rev 21 the passing of the Old Covenant and the establishment of the New, in parallel with the finalizing of the New Heaven, in which we all who are in Christ will be destined after this life. Hell...the abode where the false prophet, beast and Satan himself are thrown...that is the Lake of Fire..is precisely the abode where ressurection of those seen in Rev 20:13-15 are, including, as I said above, wher Hades and the power of death are cast.

All full preterists I know all agree with this doctrine...Sam Frost, William Bell, Dr. Birks and many other top scholars of the view. Most Full Preterists that I am in conversation daily, as the ones I stated above, were all Calvinists at onepoint, and still adhere to the five points.

What say you all Preterist Ur'ers?
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,292,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
. The primitive superstitious beliefs of the 1st century and earlier have been hardened into concrete because they studiously rejected ANY revision for 2000+ years of human civilization and knowledge . . . and praised remaining ignorant of its implications as righteous faith in the face of the "false wisdom of man." Hallelujah.
The above underlined is nowhere in scripture and is pure metaphysical garbage when it comes to the God breathed, Holy Spirit ordained first century apostles and disciples. What you present is not olny heretical to the Word of God, it is down right a blatant lie to cover the will of the flesh. Sorry brother, but you tell me one place in scripture where it defends the above?
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:49 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,490,618 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
My brother...you have some nerve .
I like to post on a few topics.
I like to post, to explore what I think about a topic, and to allow for questions.

But I dont keep posting...
I dont believe any good comes from thinking I have to get the last word in.

So I tend to post on a topic for a while, then drift to a new topic and allow the old one to follow the natural path most such topics take...(In other words they turn nasty and personal)

Along the way I learned that there are clearly some posters that are not worth talking to....
So I dont talk much to them.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:51 PM
 
37,587 posts, read 25,288,180 times
Reputation: 5860
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
My brother...you have some nerve attempting to understand what I am thinking.
Huh? . . . Isn't that the point of discussion, debate and witnessing?
Quote:
Did I attack you, or the view? Not once did I attack you personally...yet you feed on this garbage don't you.....demon possessed?
I did not attack you, brother . . . I tried to clarify your position (my best guess from your postings) . . . if it is wrong . . . mea culpa . . . but that is what you seem to be espousing.
Quote:
LOL...anything but that. I don't think UR is demon possessed at all, but rather misguided, in error, as the sect you represent.
Then we are only in disagreement about the other primitive concepts that have not changed for 2000+ years. Unlike other belief systems, religious beliefs have resisted change, despite the overwhelming evidence that every other area of human concern has clearly benefited from a natural intellectual evolution of knowledge. R.L. Wing noted,

. . . Once we understand the folly in this, we gain power by using the evolution in nature to our advantage - accepting, incorporating, and supporting change when and where it wants to occur. . . . Our decisions become astute because they are based on a dynamic evolving reality, not on fixed or wishful thinking.

Too many of Jesus' self-appointed apostles today foolishly place the emphasis on retaining and promoting particular beliefs. What is worse, they often focus on minuscule differences of opinion and escalate them into major concerns.
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