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Old 10-10-2009, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Katonjj,

Luke 16...please read it....your salvation, or your eternal life is based on what you do on this earth and this earth only. You do not get a second chance.
Your salvation has nothing to do with it!

Luke 16:11-12So if you have not been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who will trust you with true riches? And if you have not been trustworthy with someone else’s property, who will give you property of your own?
If you can't handle your own sin how can you be trusted to teach other's how to handle their sin... that is what it says...nothing about salvation.

Quote:
Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

Regarding what a man must do in his work:
Luke 16:16 “The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.

"and everyone is forcing his way into it" is "and everyone in it is treated aggressively" in the greek. The word forcing or treated aggressively is the word biazó From bios; to force, i.e. (reflexively) to crowd oneself (into), or (passively) to be seized -- press, suffer violence.

This specifically states that we are pressed into salvation or the good news. Passively, reflexively, or forcefully but nonetheless salvation is not something we can do or undo.

Quote:
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

We are in a process of sanctification. JJust because we accept Christ, does not make us exempt from sin, and our works are what is judged, as Christians.

Christ died for everyone...all people. However:
Hold up! If Christ died for everyone then everyone's debt from sin has been paid. How do you challenge that? Should everyone's debt remain because they do not SEE that it has been paid?

Quote:
Titus 3:4-7 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
His mercy saved all people as you stated above so that ALL can have salvation not by works of righteousness like the disciples had to do because they were leaders/teachers (had to be beyond reproach so that men would trust them) but by the grace poured out abundantly are we (again everyone who Christ died for) to become heirs.

Quote:
James 4:6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble."
"Resists" is translated from antitassó and means to oppose not resist...

It states that if you are proud of your accomplishments toward salvation God opposes that but if you are humble more grace is given.

Gal. 3:8 The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."

Genesis 12:3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."

Quote:
John 6:36 -37 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

You must come to Him and profess your belief...in this life. He regenarates you, but you must profess with your mouth.
Taken in context:
John 3:35 "The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand."

John 17:2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.

John 6:39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

Everyone will be brought to eternal life... all people, all things, Jesus will lose nothing the Father has given to him. He came to seek the lost to heal the sick not to justify the righteous. If Jesus was sent only to save the found that does not make sense with scripture.

Matthew 18:11 "For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.

John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

John 12:47 "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world."
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Old 10-10-2009, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
What scripure may I ask? I will explain it to you if you provide
Hebrews 10:22 let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.

Jesus had faith the size of a mountain it is that faith that seals the New Covenant. A sacrifice was ONCE through Jesus that redemption came to all who sin.

Hebrews 7:27 who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.

Hebrews 9:12-15 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

The New covenant is a better promise and the sacrifice of Christ was a once and for atonement for sin! There is no other sacrifice necessary.

If you see that you are free from sin you can serve the living God.. if you don't see (believe in Christ) that you are free from sin you cannot serve the living God.

BUT you sins are washed away no matter what you see or don't see. That is the better promise of the New Covenant that has Christ as mediator!
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Old 10-10-2009, 04:09 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,593,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I disagree, the MANY are defined here:
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

The MANY are all men and the same MANY in the later half of the statement, and the MANY are defined earlier in verse 12.
MANY=ALL

How many were made sinners? ALL
How many will be made righteous? ALL



Read through Hebrews 8. It says Christ is the high priest of the New Covenant (which makes the Old fade away) and Christ sacrificed once for all so that their sins are remembered no more.

There is no condition on it. You want MANY not to mean ALL when it clearly does mean ALL. Why is it not the same word as in verse 12? I don't know, perhaps the speaker was simply being vague or generalizing the concept of ALL he clearly defined before.



Back to my car wash theory. The blood of Christ purifies ALL men.. whether you wanna do it now or later, it is done through his ONE TIME sacrifice.

Hebrews 8.... very informative.
Notice the contrast here:

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to *all men, because all sinned.

How many are guilty of sinning? All.

*all #3956 pas and means all, the whole.

And...

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto *many.

How many will will recieve the gift of grace? Many.

*many #4183 polus and means much, many, large.

Note: many does not mean all.

Also in stating that all will be saved you are leaving out a couple of very important things. Belief and repentance.

Believe #4100 pisteuo and means to obey, to trust, to take as a model, be commited to, be faithful to.

Mt 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

Mr 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Luke. 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Luke. 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Heb. 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

2 Peter 3:9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us–ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

repent #3338 and means to turn away from

You are trying to lump ALL men as being saved, but the Word clearly shows us first they must come to repentance and then take Christ as their model, trust Him, obey His words/laws, be faithful to Him, and be commited to Him

Clearly, NOT all men have or even will do these things.
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Old 10-10-2009, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Your salvation has nothing to do with it!
It has everything to do with your belief in Jesus Christ...the parable of the rich man and poor man is just that. If you don't believe, you will not abide in paradise.

Quote:
If Christ died for everyone then everyone's debt from sin has been paid. How do you challenge that? Should everyone's debt remain because they do not SEE that it has been paid?
Katonjj,

Just because Christ died for you, me and everyone else in this world does not promise them salvation. We have to acknowledge that He is the mediator, He is the Christ, the Son of God. if we do not, that salvation is lost from a debt He already paid for. What a pity that is!

Quote:
His mercy saved all people as you stated above so that ALL can have salvation not by works of righteousness like the disciples had to do because they were leaders/teachers (had to be beyond reproach so that men would trust them) but by the grace poured out abundantly are we (again everyone who Christ died for) to become heirs.
We are all heirs, if we are regenerated and walk in His light:

Rev 21:24 And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.

You must be saved to walk in His light.


Quote:
Gal. 3:8
Quote:
The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."

Genesis 12:3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."
Sure thing...we are blessed. But if you do not receive Him, do you have that blessing too? No!

Quote:
Everyone will be brought to eternal life... all people, all things, Jesus will lose nothing the Father has given to him. He came to seek the lost to heal the sick not to justify the righteous. If Jesus was sent only to save the found that does not make sense with scripture.
This doctrine is incorrect and the scripture is against all of this. Here is the scripture again you provided:

John 17:2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.

He might....that is to those who receive.

Christ came to save the world, but there are those that are predestined to death. Unfortunately this is the case. Believing that all mankind will be saved is erroneous and to make matters worse, unscriptural.

Katonjj,

Christ came to save all mankind, but all mankind will not be completely saved. This is something that UR's have to swallow eventually, and the scripture being used here to support the idea is supporting the contrary, that this salvation, although it is available for all, is only applied to few/many/poulos.

Matt 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Last edited by sciotamicks; 10-10-2009 at 05:26 PM..
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Old 10-10-2009, 05:24 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,201,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I Cor. 15:22 -- "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive."

Does this verse say that you must be "in Christ" to be made alive or is it a statement of fact that All are made alive because of Christ?

How do you see it?

Romans 5:15 --But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!

I see that all are made alive through resurrection and saved through Christ.

Could it be that Christ's blood is like a car wash at the entry to Heaven? That all MUST pass through the car wash and be purified (in Christ)? We could even call the car wash the lake of fire. It seems to me that Christians get the basic wash (as Jesus told the disciples that their feet needed washing but some need their whole bodies cleansed) and the non-christians get the deluxe wash. I feel sorry for those like Hitler who get the deluxe wash and hot wax.

I was wondering if you, Mike, think that my car wash analogy would interfere with your beliefs at all.




Romans 5:15 --But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!

This verse, in fact the whole chapter, is conclusive of the fact all will be saved. The sin of one caused the many to die(the many being everybody), and the grace of God through Christ overflowed to the many(the same everybody that dies) to salvation ... The question how much more is rhetorical and implies the greater power of Grace over sin and death. That is to say it implies that grace so much more abounds to the many than death. Hence he continues on to say ...

... "Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." ...


and then ...

"Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound.But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord." ...




This is so plain it is mind boggling how fundamentalists could understand it in any other way than is clearly the surface meaning ...


All we need to do is ask ourselves ... where did/does sin abound? The answer is simple for any honest man, that sin abounds in everyone ... That is why everyone dies after all. And wherever sin abounds(in everyone who has ever lived) grace will MUCH MORE abound (for everyone who has ever lived) ...


If sin effects everyone and grace only effect a small few, it could not be said that grace does much more abound than sin and death. That is all there is to it.

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 10-10-2009 at 06:53 PM..
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Old 10-10-2009, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,390,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
Notice the contrast here:

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to *all men, because all sinned.

How many are guilty of sinning? All.

*all #3956 pas and means all, the whole.

And...

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto *many.

How many will will recieve the gift of grace? Many.

*many #4183 polus and means much, many, large.

Note: many does not mean all.
But many is included in the ALL.. If I am giving away ALL my pens and many of them I will give away today.. The many is the same as the ALL as they are ALL to be given away whether today or eventually.

Same with our sins, and salvation.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead,

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned.

yet how many are predisposed to death from that offense (sin) from the ONE? ALL were. All men have sinned and death spread to all men from the offense of one man many are dead... how many? ALL are dead but if you recognize God's free gift you have eternal life. The salvation and eternal life are not the same. Eternal life is living with the knowledge of God..personal savior, the result of salvation not salvation. Salvation is the grace of God which causes the eternal life to manifest in works. You cannot get the cart before the horse!

Quote:
Also in stating that all will be saved you are leaving out a couple of very important things. Belief and repentance.

Believe #4100 pisteuo and means to obey, to trust, to take as a model, be commited to, be faithful to.

Mt 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

Mr 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Luke. 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Luke. 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Heb. 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

2 Peter 3:9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us–ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

repent #3338 and means to turn away from

You are trying to lump ALL men as being saved, but the Word clearly shows us first they must come to repentance and then take Christ as their model, trust Him, obey His words/laws, be faithful to Him, and be commited to Him

Clearly, NOT all men have or even will do these things.
Again you are getting eternal life and salvation mixed up. They are not synonymous. Salvation is being saved from your sin. This is finished when Jesus died on the cross. Jesus' resurrection from death brought in the new covenant and eternal life by breaking down the barrier (symbolized by the tearing of the veil) and ability to know God personally. Salvation begets eternal life in those who recognize their salvation. Those that don't recognize their salvation are no less saved because the recognition of the cross does not affect the work done at the cross.

Simpler terms... God made a deal with man that he would forgive them. Man (Jesus) agree to be the ultimate sacrifice that would make daily sacrifice obsolete. Once and for all erase all the guilt that comes with sin to all men. God accepted the deal and Jesus' faith in God was able to pay for all the sins of all mankind. The deal was made, the contract written and the transaction is complete. All sins are paid for.

There is no payment that can be made whether works or belief (which is a conscious act of acceptance and works).

John 12:47 "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them,(unbelievers) I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world."

Jesus came for the unbelievers in the world and to save them. If he does not save them then he came for nothing. He does not judge the blatant unbeliever yet you say he sends them to eternal punishment.
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Old 10-10-2009, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Redding, Ca
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Quote:
I Cor. 15:22 -- "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive."
Posted by >>>katjonjj

Let me see if I can place this whole thing in perspective, one by which many can understand the scope of the works of God.

I emphasize the works of God because that is what really matters in the whole of the bible and humanity from the get go.

When it says, “in Adam all die” God is telling us that in His works of creation, Adam is made a living soul with intelligence. (Like God or in the image of God)

Gods (gods) with a lower case “g” as in like God.

What exactly does that mean “in the image of God”.

It means that we become independent (gods) from God (Separated) because we are now in control of our own decision making apart from God, which brings death by separation.

That separation is caused not by the apple, not by the disobedience of Adam and Eve but by the gaining of knowledge of good and evil.

Ref: Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

The disobedience notion of Adam and Eve is a child like explanation of why death came upon all mankind.

Because of the ability to process knowledge of good and evil makes us as gods is the real reason for death.

And within that same verse: “even so in Christ all shall be made alive” is the Gods answer via Gods works in saving what He created that became flawed in the making.

The second making of Adam, or a second type of Adam is Jesus Christ.

Ref: Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

The second Adam has God prepared, Jesus Christ “so in Christ all shall be made alive."
The second half of that verse.

So here is the deal or the real thing, if we come to the knowledge of the Son of God and believe in Him as the Savior of our souls, we shall be clothed in the righteous white robes of God, even as we yet live in the flesh, for eternity begun at the time of this event.

Not by our own works of righteousness, but of His.

That is what makes the difference between entering and not entering into His, kingdom only while still alive on earth.

Our own righteousness is either rewarded or not, while on earth, because after death, the righteousness of God kicks in.

All the other stories in the bible are human happenings by which God uses to hide in and reveal Himself to those who seek Him for they are the travails of humanity.

Ref: 1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

We argue about foolishly, confounding the things which are mighty, or in other words, the works of God.

Blessings, AJ



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Old 10-10-2009, 06:18 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,201,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
Notice the contrast here:

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to *all men, because all sinned.

How many are guilty of sinning? All.

*all #3956 pas and means all, the whole.

And...

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto *many.

How many will will recieve the gift of grace? Many.

*many #4183 polus and means much, many, large.

Note: many does not mean all.

Also in stating that all will be saved you are leaving out a couple of very important things. Belief and repentance.

Believe #4100 pisteuo and means to obey, to trust, to take as a model, be commited to, be faithful to.

Mt 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

Mr 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Luke. 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Luke. 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Heb. 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

2 Peter 3:9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us–ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

repent #3338 and means to turn away from

You are trying to lump ALL men as being saved, but the Word clearly shows us first they must come to repentance and then take Christ as their model, trust Him, obey His words/laws, be faithful to Him, and be commited to Him

Clearly, NOT all men have or even will do these things.
The same many who die because of sin is the same exact many that the grace of Christ does abound to. And his grace abounds much more than death. If you say death by one man comes to all, but grace by one man only comes to some, then it cannot be said that Grace much more abounds.

That is why Paul chose to use different language in ...

1Cr 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.


Its the same idea that he presented in Romans 5 but slightly different language which itself refutes the interpretation you present. The same many that Die due to Adam is the same many that the grace of Christ abounds to, but even more abundantly (That is to say that the grace of Christ not only abounds to all mankind, but to the angels as well who do not die) ...

Just as the same all who die because of adam are the same all who will be made alive in Christ.

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 10-10-2009 at 06:42 PM..
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Old 10-10-2009, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Ironmaw,

Wonderfully said again.....

katonjj,

The grace and salvation of Jesus Christ is bound to all mankind. Who enters the kingdom is a different matter altogether, and it appears you and many others are confusing them, or even more grave, intertwining the doctrines together. This grace is greater than everything known to mankind, but becasue of the fall, the original sin that has perpetuated throughout time, man, in his hardened heart yielding the intricate and overall purposes God has strictly set in motion, unchanged and neverending

It is mankind who changes. God never has and never will.
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Old 10-10-2009, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Ironmaw,

Wonderfully said again.....

katonjj,

The grace and salvation of Jesus Christ is bound to all mankind. Who enters the kingdom is a different matter altogether, and it appears you and many others are confusing them, or even more grave, intertwining the doctrines together. This grace is greater than everything known to mankind, but becasue of the fall, the original sin that has perpetuated throughout time, man, in his hardened heart yielding the intricate and overall purposes God has strictly set in motion, unchanged and neverending

It is mankind who changes. God never has and never will.
I agree that it is God who does the changing OF MAN not MAN who changes MAN.

That is the difference in what you believe and I believe. I believe God changes and saves ALL MEN who ever sinned... ALL MEN.

Grace cannot be obtained by man but God gives grace to all mankind due to the sacrifice of Christ which is salvation! Salvation is given in the form of God's grace to all mankind freely. Salvation cannot be obtained.

You seem to believe that through faith, or belief, or works, or whatever..that you can achieve salvation. Salvation is given already, and it cannot be obtained. Works result in eternal life or a life of knowing God.

The kingdom of God is not salvation. Salvation provides the way into the kingdom but that does not mean that those who are saved yet don't acknowledge it are not saved. They just fail to enter the kingdom. They are still saved by the grace of God from their sins!

You agree then twist what you agree with to make room for the possiblility of ET.

Do you believe that if ET is true and you believe in UR that you will end up in ET? Is that what you are afraid of?

John 12:47 "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them,(unbelievers) I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world."

Even those that hear and do not believe Jesus came to save and he will save all those given to him! All things were given to him and he will save all!

All are saved.. some live like they are saved and some don't (that is their choice) but the work on the cross saved all men from sin.
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