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Old 10-09-2009, 03:50 PM
 
29 posts, read 45,033 times
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Mike555,

You stated, on another thread: <“The word of God is quite clear that only those members of the human race who, while alive on the earth, make a decision to believe in Christ, are saved.”>

Could you please provide a list of scriptures to back up the “while alive on the earth” part of your statement?

For the record, most believers in UR, myself included, already believe that …

A.Salvation is only through the shed blood of Christ (Col. 1:20).
B.Faith is Christ is required for salvation (Rom. 3:22).
C.We will all be judged after we die (Heb. 9:27).
D.Many people will fail this judgment, and therefore will not inherit the kingdom of God (I Cor. 6:9-10).
E.Those who don’t inherit the kingdom of God will be thrown into the lake of fire, where they will be tormented (not tortured) to (or “into”) the ages of the ages. (Rev. 14:11, Rev. 20:10, Rev. 21:8).

So I’m not asking for scriptures supporting these 5 items … you’d just be preaching to the choir.

What I’m asking for is a list of scriptures which support why you believe …

F.The deadline for accepting Christ is during one’s earthly lifetime.

Thank you.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:43 PM
 
20,306 posts, read 15,665,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tm55 View Post
Mike555,

You stated, on another thread: <“The word of God is quite clear that only those members of the human race who, while alive on the earth, make a decision to believe in Christ, are saved.”>

Could you please provide a list of scriptures to back up the “while alive on the earth” part of your statement?

For the record, most believers in UR, myself included, already believe that …

A.Salvation is only through the shed blood of Christ (Col. 1:20).
B.Faith is Christ is required for salvation (Rom. 3:22).
C.We will all be judged after we die (Heb. 9:27).
D.Many people will fail this judgment, and therefore will not inherit the kingdom of God (I Cor. 6:9-10).
E.Those who don’t inherit the kingdom of God will be thrown into the lake of fire, where they will be tormented (not tortured) to (or “into”) the ages of the ages. (Rev. 14:11, Rev. 20:10, Rev. 21:8).

So I’m not asking for scriptures supporting these 5 items … you’d just be preaching to the choir.

What I’m asking for is a list of scriptures which support why you believe …

F.The deadline for accepting Christ is during one’s earthly lifetime.

Thank you.
Yes, I think I remember you asking.

I think you said that using Heb 9:27 didn't count. Well, yes it does.
So does John 8:24
Then there's Rev. 20:11-15. These are all unbelievers who died without believing in Christ for salvation. And now here they are, at the Great White Throne judgment of unbelievers. They have been resurrected after the end of the Millennium. Look at v7) ''And when the thousand years are completed.'' Satan has been temporarily released after the Millennium has ended and he deceives the nations into one last revolution. God puts down the revolution and casts Satan into the eternal lake of fire forever. And then all unbelievers appear before Christ at the Great White Throne for the purpose of condemnation. They are being condemned on the basis of their works because they died without accepting the work of Christ on the Cross on their behalf. And this is all taking place after the last dispensation, the last age in human history has completed. There is no repreve. Their eternal fate is sealed. They go away into eternal separation from God because they rejected the only way that God could provide savation for them without compromising His Holiness.

You need also to look at the theology behind the scriptures. You need to understand why God created man in the first place, and why He keeps the believer on earth after salvation, instead of taking him into Heaven immediately. You need to understand why God gave man free will, and how that free will relates to the spiritual warfare, the angelic conflict that is occurring invisibly all around us. And you need to understand how for man, the battlefield of this spiritual warfare is in his soul.

You need to understand that God is not just love, but that He is also holy, and that his righteousness cannot be compromised in any way in dealing with His creatures. If you understand these things, then you know why man's choice to accept or reject Christ is limited to his time on this earth.

Or you can do it the easy way and just believe what the Bible tells you. As in John 3:18.

It seems that most universalists will just scoff at all this.

If you are really looking for the truth, then research these things.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:57 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,489,351 times
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I think the answer is something like, that it is appointed for a man to die once , then the judgment.

This shows us that the judgment happens after the death of a person.
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:18 PM
 
20,306 posts, read 15,665,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
I think the answer is something like, that it is appointed for a man to die once , then the judgment.

This shows us that the judgment happens after the death of a person.
Surely by now, you must know how longwinded I am? Why use one word when I can use a thousand. I have a reputation as a pompus, know it all jackass to maintain.
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:22 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,489,351 times
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The best answer is one that is correct, but that it also has with it a deliberate hint that it might be wrong, so that the other person has to go check out what you have said for themselves...
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:27 PM
 
20,306 posts, read 15,665,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
The best answer is one that is correct, but that it also has with it a deliberate hint that it might be wrong, so that the other person has to go check out what you have said for themselves...
They should always check out anything that they're told. They would be naive not to.
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:59 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,821,504 times
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2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

1 Timothy 5:24
The sins of some men are obvious, reaching the place of judgment ahead of them; the sins of others trail behind them.

Hebrews 9:27
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment

2 Peter 2:4, 9
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
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Old 10-10-2009, 05:05 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,239 posts, read 20,001,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

1 Timothy 5:24
The sins of some men are obvious, reaching the place of judgment ahead of them; the sins of others trail behind them.

Hebrews 9:27
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment

2 Peter 2:4, 9
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
You are presuming that judgement on a person means everything but one of correctional value.
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Old 10-10-2009, 11:15 AM
 
29 posts, read 45,033 times
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Mike555,

What I asked for was scriptures showing that all post-mortem conversions can be ruled out.

What I got was two scriptures supporting that Jesus is the only way, and another two scriptures supporting the future judgment.

I was very clear in my first post that I already believed that faith in Jesus is required for salvation (Point B) and that we will all be judged after we die (Point C).

Evidently, you believe that Point B and Point C both imply that no post-mortem conversions (neither pre-judgment nor post-judgment) will be allowed. If so, you need to explain why.

And no, aion and its cognates most definitely do not mean "forever and ever."

My position is that post-judgment conversions are implied by the hundreds of universalist texts, including ...

John 12:32 -- "But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

Romans 5:18 -- "Therefore, as through one Man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life."

Romans 11:32,36a -- "God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all ... Of Him the through Him and to Him are all things."

I Cor. 15:22 -- "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive."

Col. 1:19-20 -- "It pleased the Father ...by Him to reconcile all [things] to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross."

Romans 14:11 -- "Every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God." (Also see Isa. 45:21-25 ... in v. 22 God says "Look to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth" ... and in v. 23 God makes an oath the all knees will eventually bow to Him. And remember that "No one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit" (I Cor. 12:3))

Ps. 65:2-3 -- "To You all flesh will come ... You will provide atonement."

I Jn. 4:14 -- "The Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world."

For a list of 180+ universalist texts, see Appendix I of this online book.

Last edited by tm55; 10-10-2009 at 11:17 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 10-10-2009, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,455,076 times
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Why is it when we ask questions and are then giving the answers that we don't want to hear ( but doesn't make it any less true), we then rearrange and twist stuff to soothe our itching ears? There's a name for that, what is it called again?
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