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Old 02-16-2013, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Detroit, MI
62 posts, read 76,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elder James III View Post

If one can chase a thousand and two ten thousand, what have we to fear? Please tell me, my fellow Christian Americans of all complexions, what do you think would happen if we in unison realized that the "In God We Trust" motto is really a prophecy waiting for a more effectual implementation through us?
I will be eternally gratefully for the opportunity to participate in this thread. My prayer is that I have also in some small way aroused the interest of some other Christians in the issues I have raised.

A temporary but pressing issue will keep me from my desk until 20 Feb 13. I plan then to post something I have been working on for a few days.

God bless. Keep the faith!

 
Old 02-16-2013, 09:53 PM
 
Location: where people are either too stupid to leave or too stuck to move
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did he ordain it? i dont know.. but he sure took a long time to stop it
 
Old 02-16-2013, 10:36 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,335 posts, read 20,071,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
A MAN named William Wilbur force was inspired by God (according to William) to take a stand against the massive British slave trade. Against all odds he turned the table on this horrible, lucrative, legal and popular system and it was abolished in his lifetime.

I was one of the most astonishing achievements in the history of mankind.

The following is a great dramatization of the actual events on DVD. I would highly recommend it.
Amazing Grace: The Movie - The Official Movie Website

Eventually the conscience of man responded here in America in like kind.

"I hate oppression"
- God

Don't forget that there are still millions of slaves today. Find out what you can do here:
iAbolish.org | American Anti-Slavery Group
Firstborn, did you intenionally give William a double barrel last name ? . . Great movie by the way.
 
Old 02-17-2013, 03:33 PM
 
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Default God Ordained American Slavery?

That is preposterous on its face! God did no such thing . . . humans did.
 
Old 02-26-2013, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Detroit, MI
62 posts, read 76,792 times
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Default Let the Lord's Work always Be Marvelous in Our Eyes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elder James III View Post
Rev. Fredrick Augustus Ross (1796-1883), an unrepentant apologist for the Slavocracy, asserted in his book Slavery Ordained of God that God had empowered Anglo-Saxons to enslave Africans as a connection between the highest and lowest races of men, "revealing influences which may be, and will be, most benevolent for the ultimate good of the master and the slave." Caiaphas, the Jewish high priest, schemed to have Jesus murdered to save Israel from a supposed threat of annihilation by the Romans (Jn. 11:45-52). And Joseph, who rose to become second to the Pharaoh in Egypt, was sold into slavery by his brothers (Gen. 37:1-36). In all these narratives, Ross, Caiaphas and the brothers of Joseph, God evidently had a hidden agenda that would bring glory to Him and advance His kingdom.

If a literal interpretation of Isaiah 45:5-8 is made, as is my inclination, it can be confidently stated that God ordained American slavery, the scheming of Caiaphas and the sale of Joseph by his brothers. But God hates sin (Zech 8:17) and most observers would agree that American slavery, the sale of Joseph and the murder of Jesus, in contrast to their noble results, were sinful enterprises. Consequently, even though on most good days I am somewhat right of center on this question, I am too often painfully conflicted and therefore openly seeking to be enlightened.

Could the solution be in a paradox waiting by providential design to be resolved later (1 Cor 13:12)? Should our faith be hindered merely because we cannot grasp all we desire to know about Him (Isaiah 55:9)? Should Christians become combative toward other Believers who disagree on some minor points of interpretation? Did God or did He not, based on exegetical arguments, ordain American Slavery?
The operative phrase is "exegetical arguments." It is my prayer that all who operate above my pay grade in this matter will be of the benevolent sort and eager to point me in the right direction if it seems that I am off course a bit.

The goal of my arguments, in the meantime, is to implore Christian descendants of slave masters and slaves to discard any enmity for others that has its roots in that shameful institution. My testimony is that it is a liberating experience to be free to do as I ought as opposed to as I once revengefully desired. To be in social slavery threatens the body and mind; spiritual slavery imperils the soul. Satan, excluding a few minor provocations now and then, has no more hold on me. Selah.

The insult "We have never been in bondage to anyone" hurled into the face of Jesus (John 8:31-36), the only begotten Son of God, is at once as mystifying and revealing as any rejection of fellowship with God chronicled in the Bible. Why, one wonders, did these "edumacated" Jews so faithfully celebrate the annual Passover Feast? And what was the Babylonian Exile all about? More importantly, did the Roman Empire not have its foot on the neck of Israel even as this denial was been offered? Nothing less than a state of spiritual darkness would allow such dissembling in the face of so much visible evidence to the contrary. Never in bondage to anyone? Lying through their teeth!

Consider the small asteroid that whizzed by our home planet a few days ago. I am told that it passed about 17,000 miles away but closer than some of our communication satellites. What do you suppose might happen if the next two or three future asteroids were to come, perhaps in precise increments of 1,000 miles, progressively closer to our planet......., I mean His planet.

Consider also the maiden voyage of the luxury liner Titanic in 1912 from England to America. Legend has it that some of the naval architects and engineers pronounced the floating castle as unsinkable; they did not realize that the omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent Architect of all things was listening to their vain babbling. Legend also has it that, after the ship collided with a large iceberg and began to list, the super wealthy passengers gathers on the tilted deck and began singing the solemn of Nearer My God to Thee.

God speaks to His creatures in three primary ways, i.e., through His word, through His witnesses and through His circumstances. The latter, as history testifies, can make the most hardened agnostics and atheists cry "Lord Have Mercy." I know. I once lived in that neighborhood.

Man's affliction is God's opportunity, especially if He sets the scene Himself! Keep the Faith!
 
Old 03-25-2013, 05:37 AM
 
Location: Detroit, MI
62 posts, read 76,792 times
Reputation: 29
Default We Have A Few More Rivers to Cross

God Ordained American Slavery?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
That is preposterous on its face! God did no such thing . . . humans did.
I had contemplated posting some additional responses to this assertion but suddenly realized that it might well have originated from a source unreachably above my pay grade. Even so, I am eager to risk the embarrassment if someone could explain how it is possible for humans to ordain anything. Or, since the heart of man is wicked and desperately deceitful above all things (Jeremiah 17:9), did I miss the point more widely than I had supposed?

Suffering, in my opinion until enlightened otherwise, is an instrument frequently used by God to purge the people He has ordained for assignments in His kingdom. At no time in history or HisStory is it recorded that one of His creatures was allowed to become a fruitful ambassadors for the Kingdom unless that creature beforehand was subjected to some type of purging. So it was with Moses, Elijah, David, Peter, Paul and even the rejected, persecuted and crucified Son of God.

One of His purging instruments in more recent times was the institution of slavery; other instruments are operating in our midst for the benefit of Christianity as we speak. No suffering, no maturity! No cross, no crown! Selah.

God bless
Isaiah 45:5-8
 
Old 03-25-2013, 12:31 PM
 
1,499 posts, read 933,357 times
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God Ordained American Slavery?


Not the God of the Bible. In truth, just the opposite.
 
Old 03-25-2013, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Detroit, MI
62 posts, read 76,792 times
Reputation: 29
Default A Few More Rivers to Cross

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
God Ordained American Slavery?
Not the God of the Bible. In truth, just the opposite.
My apologies but....., by "just the opposite" did you mean that God ordained something just the opposite of American slavery or did you mean that American slavery was ordained by a power just the opposite of God? Or did you intend the assertion as an ambiguity open to multiple interpretations? Whatever the case, I find your choice of words very intriguing. I am therefore eager to know what biblical references you could share with me and other thirsty readers of this thread to support your position.

God bless,
Isaiah 45:5-8 KJV
 
Old 03-25-2013, 03:44 PM
 
1,499 posts, read 933,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elder James III View Post
My apologies but....., by "just the opposite" did you mean that God ordained something just the opposite of American slavery or did you mean that American slavery was ordained by a power just the opposite of God? Or did you intend the assertion as an ambiguity open to multiple interpretations? Whatever the case, I find your choice of words very intriguing. I am therefore eager to know what biblical references you could share with me and other thirsty readers of this thread to support your position.

God bless,
Isaiah 45:5-8 KJV

In terms of American slavery, or more specifically the enslavement of the african peoples, that was not God ordained or approved. Under the OT laws, anyone who was found with a man/woman who was captured for the purpose of slavery, that person would be put to death and the slave set free. So if all those who participated in the african slave trade fully followed the Bible, they all would have been put to death.


Also if you injured your slave, the Bible says that slave was to be set free for the sake of his/her injury. So again the american people didn't follow the Bible. The kind of slavery God did allow, was those who sold themselves into slavery, and prisoners of war. And even though God would allow Israel to treat foreign slaves harshly if they want, if they beat them to death, they would be punished. If the owner injured his slave, the slave was to be set free. So God's laws were structured in a way to protect the slaves, and if they fell under a harsh owner, they would be set free.


All in all, if Israel was harsh to their slaves, that wasn't God's will, but He allowed it. If God had a slave, how would He treat them? Look at how Joseph was treated as a slave. In fact, Joseph went from slave, to second in command of all Egypt. The apostles consider themselves as God's slaves. Jesus said anyone who would give up their ways to follow Him, He would repay hundredfold and would inherit eternal life. That is how God treats His slaves, and really He adopted us as His sons and daughters.
 
Old 03-26-2013, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Detroit, MI
62 posts, read 76,792 times
Reputation: 29
Default A Few More Rivers to Cross

Did God Ordain American Slavery? Evidently!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
In terms of American slavery, or more specifically the enslavement of the african peoples, that was not God ordained or approved. Under the OT laws, anyone who was found with a man/woman who was captured for the purpose of slavery, that person would be put to death and the slave set free. So if all those who participated in the african slave trade fully followed the Bible, they all would have been put to death.
Thank you, Heavenese, for adding some insight to the canvas. I found your arguments very informative and sincere. I am still left with the conviction, however, based on my own reading of pertinent Scriptures, that my premise is valid. Consider the following quote from Isaiah 45:5-8 (KJV).

I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God besides me: i girded thee, though thou has not known me:

That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.

I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things
(emphases added).

Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness; let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the Lord have created it.


My interpretation of this beautiful passage is rooted in the conviction that God is the Architect of all things (John 1:1-5), that He is omnipresent (Psalm139:7-12), that He is omniscient (Hebrews 4:11-13) and that He is omnipotent (Revelation 19:16).

Concerning Revelation 19:16, which is quite explicit, if He is not omnipotent in all respects, i.e., over all things including "peace and evil" as mentioned in Isaiah 45:7, then He is not be omnipotent over anything. That would mean, using the finite logic of his creatures, not only that John 1:1-5 is not true but also that the entire Bible can not be true.

As shocking as this may sound to the ears of some people, allow me to point out that the Bing Bang theory is intended to plant doubt in our hearts that, just maybe, just perhaps, let us use some logic now, that the first verse in the Bible, i.e., "In the beginning .......," just might not be true. That is why we find in Psalm 19:1 that "the heavens declare the glory of the Lord." God is omniscient....., He knew that Satan would try to corrupt His truth with logically sounding lies! A little lie corrupts the whole truth (1 Corinthians 5:6).

If you manage to avoid the Big Bang trap, then you must contend with Darwin's theory of evolution and the suggestion by some pseudo-Christians, atheists and agnostics that there is no such thing as a place of eternal death for those who reject Christ as their Savior (Deuteronomy 30:19 & Acts 17:23-31).

Because God is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent, as the Scriptures proclaim, He unequivocally ordained American Slavery just as He informs us in Isaiah 45:7. Man cannot ordain anything......, we can not even discern what will happen in our lives one second from now. It is called grace...., and it can come to us only from our omnipotent Creator.

God bless. Keep the Faith. God is not through with America yet. Selah.
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