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Old 10-10-2009, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Detroit, MI
62 posts, read 76,435 times
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Rev. Fredrick Augustus Ross (1796-1883), an unrepentent apologist for the Slavocracy, asserted in his book Slavery Ordained of God that God had empowered Anglo-Saxons to enslave Africans as a connection between the highest and lowest races of men, "revealing influences which may be, and will be, most benevolent for the ultimate good of the master and the slave." Caiaphas, the Jewish high priest, schemed to have Jesus murdered to save Israel from a supposed threat of annihilation by the Romans (Jn. 11:45-52). And Joseph, who rose to become second to the Pharaoh in Egypt, was sold into slavery by his brothers (Gen. 37:1-36). In all these narratives, Ross, Caiaphas and the brothers of Joseph, God evidently had a hidden agenda that would bring glory to Him and advance His kingdom.

If a literal interpretation of Isaiah 45:5-8 is taken, as is my inclination, it can be confidently stated that God ordained American slavery, the scheming of Caiaphas and the sale of Joseph by his brothers. But God hates sin (Zech 8:17) and most observers would agree that American slavery, the sale of Joseph and the murder of Jesus, in contrast to their noble results, were sinful enterprises. Consequently, even though on most good days I am somewhat right of center on this question, I am too often painfully conflicted and therefore openly seeking to be enlightened.

Could the solution be in a paradox waiting by providential design to be revealed later (1 Cor 13:12)? Should our faith be hindered merely because we cannot grasp all we desire to know about Him (Isaiah 55:9)? Should Christians become combative toward other Believers who disagree on some minor points of interpretation? Did God or did He not, based on exegetical arguments, ordain American Slavery?

 
Old 10-10-2009, 08:16 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,448,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elder James III View Post
Could the solution be in a paradox waiting by providential design to be revealed later (1 Cor 13:12)? Should our faith be hindered merely because we cannot grasp all we desire to know about Him (Isaiah 55:9)? Should Christians become combative toward other Believers who disagree on some minor points of interpretation? Did God or did He not, based on exegetical arguments, ordain American Slavery?
I agree with that there are paradoxes that we fully can't understand but I don't see how this applies to a paradox, the bible is very clear about slavery and that slavery by kidnapping is wrong and punishable by death. I believe this falls under God's sovereignty.
 
Old 10-16-2009, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Detroit, MI
62 posts, read 76,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I agree with that there are paradoxes that we fully can't understand but I don't see how this applies to a paradox, the bible is very clear about slavery and that slavery by kidnapping is wrong and punishable by death. I believe this falls under God's sovereignty.
My sincere apologies for not posting sooner. Things have been a little hectic. I also will be away in SC until October 26th on vacation and visiting family beginning today. If I can get assess to this site I will post ASAP. Otherwise please pray for my safe flight to and from SC.

My burden for raising the question of God ordaining slavery is to encourage the holders of diametrical opinions to hopefully see that each position is based on sound Biblical principles and therefore be less inclined to use harsh language when critisizing the other. A partial success will be sufficient for me. Perhaps, prayerfully for sure, some of the racial animosity that has defined the soul of American since 1619 can be silenced. Perhaps, even more prayerfully, it might be possible to provoke the organizing of a group of sympathetic Christians who will publicly campaign for this purpose.
 
Old 10-16-2009, 07:39 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,448,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elder James III View Post
My sincere apologies for not posting sooner. Things have been a little hectic. I also will be away in SC until October 26th on vacation and visiting family beginning today. If I can get assess to this site I will post ASAP. Otherwise please pray for my safe flight to and from SC.

My burden for raising the question of God ordaining slavery is to encourage the holders of diametrical opinions to hopefully see that each position is based on sound Biblical principles and therefore be less inclined to use harsh language when critisizing the other. A partial success will be sufficient for me. Perhaps, prayerfully for sure, some of the racial animosity that has defined the soul of American since 1619 can be silenced. Perhaps, even more prayerfully, it might be possible to provoke the organizing of a group of sympathetic Christians who will publicly campaign for this purpose.
That's ok and your prayers will be with me What exactly do you mean by this?
 
Old 10-16-2009, 12:05 PM
 
303 posts, read 485,834 times
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You guys have it all wrong...its really very simple theres no paradox.God uses our evil for His own good and he knows all the evil thats in every one of our hearts.
He knew the evil in Josephs brothers hearts but used it for good likewise throughout the bible He did this again and again.
God condoned alot of things in the OT because He knew that only Gods grace through Jesus could change the hearts of men.
Slavery is evil period... unless your the slave of God as Paul talks about.....
"Let he who is to become the greatest among you become as a servant"
"All who sin are slaves"
 
Old 10-17-2009, 12:33 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,342,522 times
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Everything that goes on in the world God has to allow it. There is nothing that can happen without His permission.
 
Old 10-17-2009, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,116,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
Everything that goes on in the world God has to allow it. There is nothing that can happen without His permission.
That phrase always amuses me...God Allows It....God doesn't allow it....God causes it and every bit of it whether good or bad it done to serve His purposes and plan. Isa 45:7
 
Old 10-17-2009, 12:18 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,342,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
That phrase always amuses me...God Allows It....God doesn't allow it....God causes it and every bit of it whether good or bad it done to serve His purposes and plan. Isa 45:7
God does not do everything in the world, there are things that are demonic also. But you do know that satan and demons can't do anything without the permission from God.

Read Job, maybe you will understand. There are things that God does, Satan does, and things that are a cause from us abusing the earth. God sill knows everything.

God gave Satan permission to tempt Job, He even asked Job have you tried my servant Job. Satan was giving permission, but not to take His life. God even took His protection off of His life.

So, you can be amazed if you want, but don't be deceived.
 
Old 10-22-2009, 02:20 AM
 
4 posts, read 10,002 times
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I am a little late entering this discussion. We know that God permits/allows, and when we sin there are consequences. Keep in mind Romans 8:28. Ones faith should not be hindered; Christians should not become combative toward other believers when disagreeing on some minor points of interpretation; and, American slavery happened for a reason. It would NOT have happened, howeer, without God's permission. I appllaud Elder James for his deep insight into this subject. Who knows whether thy art come to the kingdom for such a time as this, referencing Esther 4:14.
 
Old 10-22-2009, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Detroit, MI
62 posts, read 76,435 times
Reputation: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
That's ok and your prayers will be with me What exactly do you mean by this?
The operative word is "provoke." I think a person with the skills and resources to bridge the divide between the "Free Will" adherents and their "All things are foreordained by God" adversaries, since both positions are based on the Bible (misinterpretation???), would also be effective as the leader of such an orgainization in quieting the animosity caused by slavery. I do not have any specifice ideas of how this person would be constituted, etc., and I certainly would not promote myself as being even remotely qualified to be that person. But, and I say this as emphatically as posible, I would devote some of my meager resources to supporting such a person in any way I could. The fact that you asked for clarification tells me the issue is worth exploring. Perhaps someone else reading this blog will feel constrained to confess feeling the same way. Even more of a blessing, who knows but that such a person already exists and is just waiting for some words of confirmation? That would really make my day!!!

Thanks for your prayers. I will be back in Detroit on Monday.
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