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Old 08-14-2016, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,557 posts, read 7,016,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
" ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction"

2 Peter 3:16 is not my opinion --- it is the rejection and seeking of the absolute truth beyond the Bible or somewhere else i.e. mysticism is the hallmark of "ignorant and unstable people" .

And btw: people aren't destroyed to some future UR cosmic apocalypse round-about
And of course it is those OTHER people who are "ignorant and unstable."

twin.spin, "ignorant and unstable" is STARTING with scripture rather than with the Spirit which should have animated it.
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Old 08-14-2016, 05:10 PM
 
16,093 posts, read 9,279,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geekigurl View Post
Amen, Nate. I love those verses.
Yep, they teach us it isn't scripture alone, but it includes that relationship with Jesus.

It isn't one or the other, as we would know nothing about God or Jesus if it weren't for the scriptures.

Those who pick and chose which scriptures they want to be true and those they do not, have neither.
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Old 08-14-2016, 05:46 PM
Status: "More than chromosomes." (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Anderson, IN
4,073 posts, read 1,150,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Yep, they teach us it isn't scripture alone, but it includes that relationship with Jesus.

It isn't one or the other, as we would know nothing about God or Jesus if it weren't for the scriptures.

Those who pick and chose which scriptures they want to be true and those they do not, have neither.
Agreed. I do read the Bible, of course , but I LOVE talking with God. I love hearing Him speaking to me. It's a very emotional thing for me hearing His voice.

I don't know if I'm just not understanding, but it kinda makes me sad that others can't hear Him speaking to them, or it seems as if they are dismissive of the idea.
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Old 08-14-2016, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,608 posts, read 5,125,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omega2xx View Post
I certainly can't acknowledge them as contradiction unless I have an example. I have seen non- believers post what they considered a contradiction but that is because they did not understand the verse(s).



Sure it is. God did not allow sinful men to put words in the Bible and then inspire them.




All of the Bible is Scripture and Timothy tells us All Scripture is inspired by God. Scripture inspired by God must be infallible and inerrant. Otherwise we can't find the truth. To think God would allow fallible and errant words in the Bible is unthinkable.



The doctrine of demons is that all of God's word is NOT inspired and that is what corrupts Christ's gospel. That is the theology of liberal theologians who all deny the inspiration of the Bible, and dtry to discredit even the words of Jesus. Several years ago a gaggle of liberal theologians had a meeting they called "The Jesus Project. Their conclusion was that only16% of what is attributed to Jesus saying, He actually said. Of course liberal theologians are long on pontification and short on evidence.



While that is true, it is way to narrow. The test for what is God truth is "did God say it?" The only way we can know for sure that God said it, it to find it in His inspired, infallible and inerrant word.

If God's word is not inerrant, we can never be sure we know the truth.
It's not inerrant and not even consistent--just like the people who wrote it. And God intended every error and discrepancy in order to find out who would worship His ultimate Word to men or would be sidetracked like the Pharisees who could only depend on what they read in a book.

You can be sure God said it if it lifts up His Son for EVERYBODY!!

If you can't you can be sure you lack the faith to see God "beyond the sacred page I seek Thee, Lord;
My spirit pants for Thee, O living Word!," as Mary Lathbury wrote in 1877. Only after one reaches that lofty goal beyond the Sacred Page is he able to make sense of the writings we call sacred.
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Old 08-14-2016, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,608 posts, read 5,125,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Yep, they teach us it isn't scripture alone, but it includes that relationship with Jesus.

It isn't one or the other, as we would know nothing about God or Jesus if it weren't for the scriptures.

Those who pick and chose which scriptures they want to be true and those they do not, have neither.
The reverse is equally true---if we do not know Jesus it is impossible to understand Scripture which is chock full of examples of situational ethics---where written Scripture is NOT obeyed but the people involved are blessed regardless.

Those who can't find the numerous examples are not serious bible students, they are illiterate religionists.
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Old 08-14-2016, 06:35 PM
Status: "More than chromosomes." (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Anderson, IN
4,073 posts, read 1,150,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
I don't know about you, geeki, but when I was a fundamentalist Christian and I read those verses, I assumed "come to me to have life" meant "believe Jesus is your savior and died for your sins in your place so you won't go to hell".
I believed that for a long time too. It's become apparent to me, though, that in order to come to Him, you have to enter into relationship with Him, and that has to go far beyond the written word.
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Old 08-14-2016, 07:43 PM
 
16,093 posts, read 9,279,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
The reverse is equally true---if we do not know Jesus it is impossible to understand Scripture which is chock full of examples of situational ethics---where written Scripture is NOT obeyed but the people involved are blessed regardless.

Those who can't find the numerous examples are not serious bible students, they are illiterate religionists.
Both are definitely true. However neither Jesus nor scripture ever contradict each other in context. The key, that many miss in ethics based on scripture is the principles of God that are clear in every scriptural accounts, even if the actual law/command no longer applies because of Jesus' life and death ... and of course resurrection. Where applicable scripture is not followed, no blessing comes.

Religionists either place one over the other, dismiss one, or are selective as to what they accept. Their God is ... themselves.
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Old 08-14-2016, 07:47 PM
 
16,093 posts, read 9,279,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geekigurl View Post
I believed that for a long time too. It's become apparent to me, though, that in order to come to Him, you have to enter into relationship with Him, and that has to go far beyond the written word.
This is true as just in a relationship with anyone we see as good, we are the ones who must change or the "good" person will withdraw from us after a while. I learned long ago do it God's way, which is to follow the example of His Son, or do it my way. Those are really the only two choices. Just as when I was young and stupid and did things my way, and lost friends, I have learned to put myself far below even 2nd place. Abraham did not become God's friend by doing things his own way. John did not draw so close to Jesus by doing things his own way.

One of my favorite scriptures.

Isaiah 48:18 8 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

It leads to the ebst life we can have in this world.

Listen to and obey God and His son Jesus. Then we draw even closer to them than we thought possible.
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Old 08-14-2016, 10:32 PM
 
7,713 posts, read 3,421,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
It's not inerrant and not even consistent--just like the people who wrote it. And God intended every error and discrepancy in order to find out who would worship His ultimate Word to men or would be sidetracked like the Pharisees who could only depend on what they read in a book.

You can be sure God said it if it lifts up His Son for EVERYBODY!!

If you can't you can be sure you lack the faith to see God "beyond the sacred page I seek Thee, Lord;
My spirit pants for Thee, O living Word!," as Mary Lathbury wrote in 1877. Only after one reaches that lofty goal beyond the Sacred Page is he able to make sense of the writings we call sacred.
In other words, you have NO foundation for your faith. If the Bible is not inerrant then Jesus was a liar and verses like Ephesians 6:10-18 are meaningless.
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Old 08-14-2016, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,557 posts, read 7,016,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
In other words, you have NO foundation for your faith. If the Bible is not inerrant then Jesus was a liar and verses like Ephesians 6:10-18 are meaningless.
No, jeffbase, the foundation for our faith is the promise of Jesus that He would send a Guide to be with us forever. It's recorded in the Bible. Don't you believe that promise?
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