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Old 10-11-2009, 06:14 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,372,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
This is just the latest strawman argument that HotinAZ has been throwing around to discredit the teaching of the word of reconciliation. Its not by any means a new strawman argument, just the one he has been throwing around lately.
Strawman? Is that like a scarecrow? I don't have to discredit a lie, just show the error with the Truth.
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Old 10-11-2009, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,387,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Strawman? Is that like a scarecrow? I don't have to discredit a lie, just show the error with the Truth.
You have shown nothing.

Salvation is given to ALL mankind. That is a fact. there is no other way of interpreting scripture.. if Jesus died for sins ONCE and FOR ALL then sins are covered. The sins of believers as well as the sins of non-believers.
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Old 10-11-2009, 06:42 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,199,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Strawman? Is that like a scarecrow? I don't have to discredit a lie, just show the error with the Truth.
Indeed ... Well then, seeing that the teaching of Universal Reconciliation is not a lie or an error, there is no wonder that you have to use a strawman argument to discredit it.
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Old 10-11-2009, 06:52 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,372,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Indeed ... Well then, seeing that the teaching of Universal Reconciliation is not a lie or an error, there is no wonder that you have to use a strawman argument to discredit it.
Umm, no sinner, without Jesus, shall ever have standing in the presense of God the Father. Ever!

This is the purpose of Him sending Jesus Christ. But you HAVE TO believe in order to be saved, and there is NO getting around that fact. No where in scripture is it located that you have any second or infinite number of chances past death. So yours is the strawman, not mine. I have shown you the last verse in Isaiah to prove this point. Here it is again:

"Then they will go forth and look On the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm will not die And their fire will not be quenched; And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind."

Of course, you have a rebuttel. You don't believe it is different people, but rather the same people,,,heavenly looking upon the fleshly. It is not what it says though, so make more stuff up.

And by the way. This is AFTER the verse saying:

"And it shall be from new moon to new moon And from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me," says the LORD.

So yea,,,ALL those left standing l bow. The dead unrepentant sinners are not included in the ALL. Why? No Jesus to advocate for them.
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Old 10-11-2009, 07:17 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,199,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Umm, no sinner, without Jesus, shall ever have standing in the presense of God the Father. Ever!
We have been over this countless times. Of course you are right in this regard. However, you fail to recognize that in the fullness of times that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Christ is lord to the glory of the father. And every person of every nations will sing his name and worship him and swear fealty to him.(Isa 45:23,Phl 2:10,Rom 14:11,Psa 67:4,Psa 66:4)

Quote:
This is the purpose of Him sending Jesus Christ. But you HAVE TO believe in order to be saved, and there is NO getting around that fact. No where in scripture is it located that you have any second or infinite number of chances past death. So yours is the strawman, not mine. I have shown you the last verse in Isaiah to prove this point. Here it is again:

"Then they will go forth and look On the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm will not die And their fire will not be quenched; And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind."

Of course, you have a rebuttel. You don't believe it is different people, but rather the same people,,,heavenly looking upon the fleshly. It is not what it says though, so make more stuff up.
Of course, i wouldn't have much reason to believe the way that i do if i didn't have a rebuttal for every single one of your arguments against the word or reconciliation. Saying that there is no where in scripture that says you don't have a chance after you die is not true.

1Pe 4:6
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Now you might interpret this scripture in a way that changes what it is saying to mean something other that what it says, but here it clearly says the gospel is preached to the dead so they might live in according to god in the spirit.

Now however you interpret this verse really doesn't matter. Because there is no place in scripture that teaches you cannot be saved after you die. To quote Hbr 9:27 as proof that you cannot be saved after you die is to completely disregard or misunderstand what the word of reconciliation teaches. The word of reconciliation teaches that all who are judged by Gods fiery judgments are saved by the very same fiery judgments(1Cr 3:15).

Quote:
"Then they will go forth and look On the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm will not die And their fire will not be quenched; And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind."
Notice that these are carcasses and not living beings writhing in agony? And where are the fallen angels in this picture?

This is referring to the return of Christ after the battle of Armageddon, when the dead bodies of the armies of the nations who have been destroyed during the return of Christ are all gathered together and by

Quote:
And by the way. This is AFTER the verse saying:

"And it shall be from new moon to new moon And from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me," says the LORD.

So yea,,,ALL those left standing l bow. The dead unrepentant sinners are not included in the ALL. Why? No Jesus to advocate for them.
Um, yeah ... but notice it says "will come to bow down before Me"? And not "have come to bow down before me"?

These things are not necessarily in Chronological order either, though i know you believe that they are ...

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


What is said will happen in verse 24 will not occur after the recreation of the heaven and earth because death is swallowed up in victory before the creation of the new heavens and earth, according to full furturism that is. The events in the above verses are not written down in Chronological order. They are only proclamations about what will be in the future. Yes verse 24 will happen(or according to preterism has already happened when the temple was destroyed in the 1st century ad) but before and not after the creation of the new heavens and earth.
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