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Old 10-12-2009, 12:55 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,361,590 times
Reputation: 576

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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Elijah went into the air... the word translated as Heaven.. is not the heaven you envision but the air... the whirlwind separated him from Elisha and he was GONE.. there is nothing to say he went to be with God in heaven because the thought in that day was that NOONE resided with God in heaven. The dead were in the grave. Just because noone saw his body doesn't mean that he was taken ALIVE to HEAVEN as you picture it...

Anyway.. (I told you it was a waste of your time because I don't believe in these things... but you decided it was worth it I guess)


A better verse for supporting Enoch was taken without dying is Hebrews 11:5 but ....

That those two are not dead but still living somewhere.. boggles my mind.. Especially since God says all must be resurrected in purity in order to enter into his presence.. I wonder if Enoch and Elijah were slaughtered on their way into the heavens? That way they could be sinless..

Oh well.. I can live with not knowing..

Back to the OP... where is the verse again that says children of a certain age are exempt for eternal torture?
Yes, it was a waste of time with someone who does not believe in the bible for what it says. anyway, carry on. You should sit under a teaching to learn the proper way to translate a word and verse. I want waste my time, you don't believe in such things as taking the bible for what it says.

A waste of time, right for that.
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:03 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,423,969 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
I already answered the question about babies. They do not go to hell, you don't have scripture to say other wise. It would behoove you to understand my post. I never said that I didn't have scripture, I said what scripture says that they are not (going to heaven), because you don't have scripture that says otherwise. LOL
The whole premise of ET is that NOONE who does not believe is going to hell... I don't see where there are any exceptions and I have debated ET with the best of them.

I still have never been told by any ETer or Annihilationist that there is exceptions to the rule of ALL must believe in Christ of they go to hell.... in fact that has been expanded to encompass all who don't believe in ET as well. And since I cannot prove you wrong with scripture as there is no scripture that says children are or are not subject to condemnation I would have to fall back on:

2 Thess. 1:8-10 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

Funny.. as a URer I can't find scripture to say that anyone gets eternal torture.. but hey that may be because I don't see ET as a viable option in even the verse I did post... Either way it is your burdon of proof since you claim that there is an exception the the rule that ll who don't believe are doomed to hell...

I did try though.
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:05 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,361,590 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
The whole premise of ET is that NOONE who does not believe is going to hell... I don't see where there are any exceptions and I have debated ET with the best of them.

I still have never been told by any ETer or Annihilationist that there is exceptions to the rule of ALL must believe in Christ of they go to hell.... in fact that has been expanded to encompass all who don't believe in ET as well. And since I cannot prove you wrong with scripture as there is no scripture that says children are or are not subject to condemnation I would have to fall back on:

2 Thess. 1:8-10 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

Funny.. as a URer I can't find scripture to say that anyone gets eternal torture.. but hey that may be because I don't see ET as a viable option in even the verse I did post... Either way it is your burdon of proof since you claim that there is an exception the the rule that ll who don't believe are doomed to hell...

I did try though.
You don't see it because you are blinded to the truth. You don't believe in ET but you use a verse that proves that God will indeed punish the wicked for eternity. I hate it if you ever enter in on a debate team, your team would hate you.
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:07 AM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,324,733 times
Reputation: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by whos'who View Post
Are new born babies who are not saved and who have not excepted Jesus as their lord and savior, comdemned to hell?
All human being babies are clean by the blood of Atonement, if they die before they have come to the age of accountability.
All human beings will be judged on their deeds done, whether good or evil, with understanding, and no baby has a deed done with understanding of good or evil until they do come to that awareness.
Jesus' blood was shed for all in Adam, and those who die before they can choose by their freewill to do good or evil deeds belong to Him, cause He came to ransom them from the curse of the fall of our first father.
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:11 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,423,969 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
You don't see it because you are blinded to the truth. You don't believe in ET but you use a verse that proves that God will indeed punish the wicked for eternity. I hate if if you ever enter in on a debate team, your team would hate you.
Like I said.. I tried but it was impossible given my beliefs.... I can see how one comes by the ET belief because I was there but I cannot see how you can say that some are excluded... there are no verses to support that.. and you asking me to prove myself wrong is pretty ridiculous but I did make an effort. I don't believe that verse proves ET but then again I did post it to show that if you do believe in ET you can not just exclude people from eternal torture cuz they are cute...
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:13 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,423,969 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
All human being babies are clean by the blood of Atonement, if they die before they have come to the age of accountability.
All human beings will be judged on their deeds done, whether good or evil, with understanding, and no baby has a deed done with understanding of good or evil until they do come to that awareness.
Jesus' blood was shed for all in Adam, and those who die before they can choose by their freewill to do good or evil deeds belong to Him, cause He came to ransom them from the curse of the fall of our first father.
So you are saved but then by freewill you can undo that you are saved so that you have to ask to be saved again?

Either you are saved or not... how can you unsave yourself at the age of accountability just to be saved again when you believe in Christ?

That doesn't make much sense to me...
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:13 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,361,590 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Like I said.. I tried but it was impossible given my beliefs.... I can see how one comes by the ET belief because I was there but I cannot see how you can say that some are excluded... there are no verses to support that.. and you asking me to prove myself wrong is pretty ridiculous but I did make an effort. I don't believe that verse proves ET but then again I did post it to show that if you do believe in ET you can not just exclude people from eternal torture cuz they are cute...
YOu did make an effort by posting a scripture plainly talking about ET. Good job. You posted, and is still blind. I also get a kick out of your post. Very entertaining.

That would be like me posting the word dog, but calling it a cat. LOL
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:19 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,423,969 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
YOu did make an effort by posting a scripture plainly talking about ET. Good job. You posted, and is still blind. I also get a kick out of your post. Very entertaining.

That would be like me posting the word dog, but calling it a cat. LOL
Yes it was the believing that the dog is a cat that threw me. I am open to all interpretations though.. I just wanted you to know that I don't discount your view.. I just don't believe that ET is a valid option. There has to be a reconciliation of sorts for Jesus' work on the cross to be valid. If Christ didn't die for ALL sins, then he didn't die for any..

But that is just my opinion...

I emphatically believe that all are saved including and especially cute little newborns.
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:27 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,361,590 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Yes it was the believing that the dog is a cat that threw me. I am open to all interpretations though.. I just wanted you to know that I don't discount your view.. I just don't believe that ET is a valid option. There has to be a reconciliation of sorts for Jesus' work on the cross to be valid. If Christ didn't die for ALL sins, then he didn't die for any..

But that is just my opinion...

I emphatically believe that all are saved including and especially cute little newborns.
Christ died for all but all will not come to Him. Christ is the SAvior of all man kind, but all man kind will not come to Jesus. Anyway, I am through with this conversation.
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:31 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,423,969 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
Christ died for all but all will not come to Him. Christ is the SAvior of all man kind, but all man kind will not come to Jesus. Anyway, I am through with this conversation.
Yes.. I agree however I believe that it is not necessary to come to him as he already saved ALL mankind.

If God said" Jesus you will save all mankind" but Jesus did not... then both God and Jesus are inadequate as saviors...

Again.. my opinion. You can have a different one.. I just don't see why someone would have to come to Jesus in order to be saved as the saved part was already done. If you want to live as Jesus did you must follow him but to be saved? Jesus did that on the cross and noone can undo that.. not even Hitler...(who was devoutly Catholic Socialist and thought he was doing God's work).
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