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Old 10-12-2009, 12:35 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,588,448 times
Reputation: 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Yes.. I agree however I believe that it is not necessary to come to him as he already saved ALL mankind.

If God said" Jesus you will save all mankind" but Jesus did not... then both God and Jesus are inadequate as saviors...

Again.. my opinion. You can have a different one.. I just don't see why someone would have to come to Jesus in order to be saved as the saved part was already done. If you want to live as Jesus did you must follow him but to be saved? Jesus did that on the cross and noone can undo that.. not even Hitler...(who was devoutly Catholic Socialist and thought he was doing God's work).
The reason they have to come to Jesus is because He says that you have too. So, what He says goes. Not what I or you say. He has the final say so. There are scriptures that says Jesus is the way and no other, you can't get into heaven without Him. He even says that.
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:49 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,646,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
The reason they have to come to Jesus is because He says that you have too. So, what He says goes. Not what I or you say. He has the final say so. There are scriptures that says Jesus is the way and no other, you can't get into heaven without Him. He even says that.
Yes I believe that Jesus is the only way... however I think of it as a "must pass go" type thing where Jesus is the GATE that all must pass through.. therefore it takes no conscious thought or decision on the part of the sinner.. They will be reconciled to Christ for that is the only way and God said he will save all mankind...

I believe he will save all mankind. No matter what the sinner does.

That is also why I can emphatically say that babies do not go to hell... well besides the fact that I don't believe in hell..
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:53 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,588,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Yes I believe that Jesus is the only way... however I think of it as a "must pass go" type thing where Jesus is the GATE that all must pass through.. therefore it takes no conscious thought or decision on the part of the sinner.. They will be reconciled to Christ for that is the only way and God said he will save all mankind...

I believe he will save all mankind. No matter what the sinner does.

That is also why I can emphatically say that babies do not go to hell... well besides the fact that I don't believe in hell..
Well, I wish that was the case, but the bible does not teach that. But if that makes you feel better then run with it. You are right about the babie though. I am going to bed.
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:54 AM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,255 posts, read 1,787,794 times
Reputation: 1375
Wow. One book, twice in one night.


The Great Divorce Summary and Analysis Summary
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:02 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,646,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
Well, I wish that was the case, but the bible does not teach that. But if that makes you feel better then run with it. You are right about the babie though. I am going to bed.
Good night Miss Shawn...

BTW- I am right simply because you wished it! (that was a joke)

Truly though, there is no harm in believing that God set out to save the world and he did. Paul says that we should not sin so that grace will abound but that we can sin. He doesn't seem to think that sinning excludes us from salvation. I gather that it is because he knows that there is no sacrifice left.. that Jesus took away ALL sin by his blood shed on the cross...

yikes... don't get me started.
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:04 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,646,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
Wow. One book, twice in one night.


The Great Divorce Summary and Analysis Summary
I saw your other post. Looks like a good book that I must've missed somehow. As an avid book reader, I cannot imagine how I missed it...

Does anyone remember Hinds' feet in High Places? That was a good story too... I don't remember if it was especially biblical but a good story.

Thanks for the post!
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:05 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,588,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Good night Miss Shawn...

BTW- I am right simply because you wished it! (that was a joke)

Truly though, there is no harm in believing that God set out to save the world and he did. Paul says that we should not sin so that grace will abound but that we can sin. He doesn't seem to think that sinning excludes us from salvation. I gather that it is because he knows that there is no sacrifice left.. that Jesus took away ALL sin by his blood shed on the cross...

yikes... don't get me started.
I get what you are trying to say, but if that was the case, Jesus never would send those who He says He will send out of His sight. But that is another story. You can believe that if that is what you believe, but I will believe Jesus and what He said in His Word. Good night.
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:19 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,646,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
I get what you are trying to say, but if that was the case, Jesus never would send those who He says He will send out of His sight. But that is another story. You can believe that if that is what you believe, but I will believe Jesus and what He said in His Word. Good night.
Perhaps you will catch this tomorrow... and I won't be back on till later in the evening but...

I used to struggle with that verse in Matthew as well... It is this one that you refer to... right?

Matthew 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

(Well there is one in Luke as well that says the same thing)

What I don't think you realize is that Christ is quoting from Psalm 119:115 "Depart from me, evildoers, That I may observe the commandments of my God."

So I think Jesus was saying that he didn't want to have any part with evil doers because he had to maintain his purity for the cross as this was early in his ministry... later in his ministry we see him talking with tax collectors and other such sinners.

It is clear that David struggled in the company of evildoers and Jesus quoting the Psalm makes me think that he had to get away from them so he told them to go away... I don't see them going away to eternal damnation or separation for eternity but nonetheless... he cannot say he has even heard of them or he may be counted as an evildoer... in which case no one would believe he was the Messiah as prophesied.. But that is my take.
It could also be a quotation of Psalm 6:8 Depart from me, all you who do iniquity, For the LORD has heard the voice of my weeping.
and Psalm 6:9 says "The LORD has heard my cry for mercy; the LORD accepts my prayer." but that doesn't really fit with the context as well as the other Psalm...

Hope your day goes well... See you again soon.
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Old 10-12-2009, 03:08 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,345 posts, read 3,608,401 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
I know of no Christian church that teaches that unbaptized babies end up in hells everlasting fire...
Some Hyper-Calvinists teach exactly that (I've heard them with my own ears). Of course, it's a very very very unpopular teaching in general.

But - if it is believed that the baptism of babies is unnecessary for their salvation - then why are babies baptized in the RCC?

Most Christians make exceptions for babies, underage, mentally retarded, those who never heard etc etc. Seems like the greatest blessing (in that view) is to die young, be mentally incompetent or to never hear! (yes - I know the heavens declare ect - I'm just highlighting the ignorant things I've heard some people say)

In fact, under the "all babies go to heaven" and "all adult unbelievers go to eternal hell" scenario - the abortionists are the most successful soul winners in America. That's nuts!!!
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Old 10-12-2009, 03:55 AM
 
Location: RI
18,950 posts, read 9,027,975 times
Reputation: 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Miss Shawn, i don't believe in hell, or in eternal torture, I believe in universal reconciliation ... remember? The whole point is that fundamentalists believe in original sin, and in eternal torture. Put them together and you get babies in hell like Augustine taught and like some believe today.
This is a very good point, because as you say if according to the fundy's the original sin doctrine is true , then all babies go to ET according to their own doctrine , because they interpret "the wages of sin as death" the effect of original sin as meaning you are going to ET.

This to me is a massive flaw in their doctrine and pulls the false gospel rug they believe in right from under their feet.
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