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Old 10-13-2009, 01:47 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,358,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Quoting the bible is speaking lies to many fundamentalists. Because they cant accept what the bible says.
You don't quote verses you twist them,
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:48 AM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,322,231 times
Reputation: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I think you guys take the "demons and satans" out of context.. they don't exist in the real world.. LOL

Ever wonder why there are no demons in the OT? and only satan in the context of deceiver/adversary?

It's because they don't REALLY exist! But I suppose that is off topic.
Enoch wrote of the origin of evil spirits -and yes, the OT believers were well aware of them;
Quote:
1 Enoch

[Chapter 15] 1 And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: 'Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous 2 man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. And go, say to the Watchers of heaven, who have sent thee to intercede for them: "You should intercede" for men, and not men 3 for you: Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children 4 of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons?

And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die 5 and perish. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget 6 children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. But you were formerly 7 spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling.

8 And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon 9 the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; 10 they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called.
[As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.] And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless 12 hunger and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them.
Now the evil spirits from the disembodied female offspring of the Watchers are called "sirens"
Quote:
1 Enoch

[Chapter 19] 1 And Uriel said to me: 'Here shall stand the angels who have connected themselves with women, and their spirits assuming many different forms are defiling mankind and shall lead them astray into sacrificing to demons as gods, (here shall they stand,) till the day of the great judgement in 2 which they shall be judged till they are made an end of. And the women [offspring] also of the angels who 3 went astray shall become sirens.' And I, Enoch, alone saw the vision, the ends of all things: and no man shall see as I have seen.
and in zechariah 5, we see two sirens =evil spirits;
Quote:
Zec 5:7 And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this [is] a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah.

Zec 5:8 And he said, This [is] wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof.
Zec 5:9 Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind [was] in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.

Zec 5:10 Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah?

Zec 5:11 And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base.



2Ch 33:6And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
1Sa 16:14But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
1Sa 28:8And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me [him] up, whom I shall name unto thee.
1Ch 10:13So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, [even] against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking [counsel] of [one that had] a familiar spirit, to enquire [of it];

Job 4:15Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:49 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,358,674 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Separated from him in their LIFETIME or after death? I'd have to see the verse. I believe Jesus will not leave any man unsaved. That he will go to the ends of the earth to save every last one. After all what Jesus did was lay down his life for mankind... and he will save all mankind.

If I chose to die for someone I sure as heck wouldn't leave it up to them to accept it.. I would want my death to have purpose and meaning... and I am just human but to say that God sacrificed His own Son just so that mankind would partially be saved or have a way to salvation is just a pathetic interpretation of the majesty of God! IMHO
It doesn't matter if someone provides scripture you refuse to see, blinded eyes can't see. I am going to bed, have fun
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:58 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,220,482 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
NO, you are speaking lies.


Its very simple miss shawn. A carnal mortal unregenerate person cannot choose to go to God. It is impossible. You did not choose God, he chose you. You did not choose to do Gods good pleasure, he worked it out within you to do so. You had no hand in your own salvation whatsoever. You did not come to Christ, God dragged you to him.


Rom 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Destruction and misery are in their ways:
And the way of peace have they not known:
There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Phl 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Jhn 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Jhn 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 10:30
I and my Father are one.
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:58 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,358,674 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Quoting the bible is speaking lies to many fundamentalists. Because they cant accept what the bible says.
NO you are speaking lies
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:58 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,419,323 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
Lost and deceived, evil spirits are in the OT, you over look them
Evil spirits.. I knew you would go there because I even hinted at it in my post by changing demons to evil spirits!

Look! I found an OT passage with demon:

Deut. 32:17 They sacrificed to demons, which are not God--gods they had not known, gods that recently appeared, gods your fathers did not fear.

Oh well the demons here are other gods and since no other gods truly exist (cuz God is the Most High) then I guess these demons didn't exist either, or perhaps the word demon is used as a false deity.

There are plenty of "familiar spirits" which can be translated as spiritists or even ghosts (the dead), but not quite the same meaning you give to demons.

How about:

Judges 9:23 God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the citizens of Shechem, who acted treacherously against Abimelech.

1 Sam. 19:9 But an evil spirit from the LORD came upon Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand. While David was playing the harp,

1 Sam. 16:14 Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him.

There are a ton of evil spirits from the Lord... what do you mean about there being evil spirits in the OT?

There aren't.. your definition of evil spirit/demon is not found in the OT.
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:59 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,358,674 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Its very simple miss shawn. A carnal mortal unregenerate person cannot choose to go to God. It is impossible. You did not chose God, he chose you. You did not choose to do Gods good pleasure, he worked it out within you to do so. You had no hand in your own salvation whatsoever. You did not come to Christ, God dragged you to him.


Rom 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Destruction and misery are in their ways:
And the way of peace have they not known:
There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Phl 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Jhn 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Jhn 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 10:30
I and my Father are one.
You can quote scripture all you want a deceived person will make scripture say what is not there.
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:00 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,358,674 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Evil spirits.. I knew you would go there because I even hinted at it in my post by changing demons to evil spirits!

Look! I found an OT passage with demon:

Deut. 32:17 They sacrificed to demons, which are not God--gods they had not known, gods that recently appeared, gods your fathers did not fear.

Oh well the demons here are other gods and since no other gods truly exist (cuz God is the Most High) then I guess these demons didn't exist either, or perhaps the word demon is used as a false deity.

There are plenty of "familiar spirits" which can be translated as spiritists or even ghosts (the dead), but not quite the same meaning you give to demons.

How about:

Judges 9:23 God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the citizens of Shechem, who acted treacherously against Abimelech.

1 Sam. 19:9 But an evil spirit from the LORD came upon Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand. While David was playing the harp,

1 Sam. 16:14 Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him.

There are a ton of evil spirits from the Lord... what do you mean about there being evil spirits in the OT?

There aren't.. your definition of evil spirit/demon is not found in the OT.
deceived, read your bible and listen to the Holy Spirit. Done with this
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:00 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,220,482 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
NO you are speaking lies
Silly woman, you cant tell the difference between Scripture and lies ...

I love you and i am not lying to you, and neither is the word of God. If only you could accept the bible for what it says, you would finally understand. One day you will.
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:04 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,358,674 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Silly woman, you cant tell the difference between Scripture and lies ...

I love you and i am not lying to you, and neither is the word of God. If only you could accept the bible for what it says, you would finally understand. One day you will.
Silly you are, I don't take advice from someone who is decieved and take scripture out of context. You can't lead yourself much less anyone else. You can quote scripture all day without understanding the meaning of the context which you don't. I am done wasting my time.
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