U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
Old 10-13-2009, 08:12 AM
 
1,534 posts, read 918,442 times
Reputation: 256

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I think you guys take the "demons and satans" out of context.. they don't exist in the real world.. LOL

Ever wonder why there are no demons in the OT? and only satan in the context of deceiver/adversary?

It's because they don't REALLY exist! But I suppose that is off topic.
When I hear a comment such as what I highlighted above, I have to ask, "Do you read your Bible, and or the O. T.?"

Truly, for if you did you would know that King Saul asked his men if they knew of a medium that had a familiar spirit. Do you know what a familar spirit is? It's an evil spirit that can imitate a dead person. King Saul had her call up her familar spirit and the spirit impersonated Samuel.

Have you not read Deut. 18?

10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a *necromancer.

*necromancer speaks with the dead i.e evil spirits.

12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.

If evil spirits didn't exsist why the warning and why does God state to do any of the abvoe is an abomination?

And in regards to satan. Haven't you read Job chapter 1?

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Apparently God believed satan, exsisted, and even talked with him, so I suggest you had better believe it too.

He's our advesary. He often comes as an angel of light.

Last edited by mshipmate; 10-13-2009 at 08:16 AM.. Reason: correct spelling
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-13-2009, 10:14 AM
 
Location: south Missouri
438 posts, read 640,013 times
Reputation: 282
Just remember that Christians of any sect would not have a Bible had not the Catholic Church - the only CHristian sect for centuries - preserved it until the Reformation Years (1500's) when men like Luther could start to come up with their own take on it.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2009, 10:49 AM
 
8,990 posts, read 8,717,072 times
Reputation: 726
Quote:
Originally Posted by joetownmom View Post
Just remember that Christians of any sect would not have a Bible had not the Catholic Church - the only CHristian sect for centuries - preserved it until the Reformation Years (1500's) when men like Luther could start to come up with their own take on it.
I remember and I would like to thank the catholic church for putting God's word down on paper in latin....by the way did William Tyndale have his own take as well
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2009, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,751,441 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
When I hear a comment such as what I highlighted above, I have to ask, "Do you read your Bible, and or the O. T.?"
Some people believe in ghosts too...I don't.

Quote:
Truly, for if you did you would know that King Saul asked his men if they knew of a medium that had a familiar spirit. Do you know what a familar spirit is? It's an evil spirit that can imitate a dead person. King Saul had her call up her familar spirit and the spirit impersonated Samuel.
No! Just one of several examples....
1 Samuel 28:7 Saul then said to his attendants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, so I may go and inquire of her." "There is one in Endor," they said.
The NIV translates the Hebrew ob as medium and it never means evil spirit...it means a bottle (made from animal skin), a necromancer, or medium... never refers to the dead spirit that is contacted. It is translated as wineskin once too...

Saul thought the dead could talk through mediums or necromancers... there were no demons as in the kind in Frank Peretti's writings shown here.

Quote:
Have you not read Deut. 18?

10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a *necromancer.

*necromancer speaks with the dead i.e evil spirits.

12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.

If evil spirits didn't exsist why the warning and why does God state to do any of the abvoe is an abomination?
Notice that in your quote is is the CONSULTANT of the familiar spirit not the familiar spirit. The word for familiar spirit here is yiddeoni which is a knower from the root or wizard... the fact is that the familiar spirit is not addressed by itself because they didn't exist. God knew that they professed to be able to talk to the dead but God also knew that the dead were not roaming the earth or able to communicate. That is why it was an abomination... because it was not even remotely possible to talk to the dead!

Proverbs 11:1 A false balance is an abomination to the LORD, But a just weight is His delight.

Because it deceives by being false it is an abomination just like those who are talking with the dead, that their sayings are not true knowledge but are false. There is no communication with the dead!

Quote:
And in regards to satan. Haven't you read Job chapter 1?

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Apparently God believed satan, exsisted, and even talked with him, so I suggest you had better believe it too.

He's our advesary. He often comes as an angel of light.
Well he doesn't seem to be much of an adversary if he is testing Job as GOD presented him to the accuser (sata)... I mean if Satan were real and God is talking with him for real as portrayed in Job (hopefully you've read the whole thing) then why does God bring Job to Satan's attention?

Job 1:6-7 One day the angels (sons of God) came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan (the accuser) also came with them. The Lord said to Satan (the accuser), “Where have you come from?”

First, why are the "angels" coming before the Lord and Satan is there? Did God summon him or the angels? and why does God ask "where have you come from?" Doesn't God know?

Translated as capital S..Satan and all of the sudden GOD EVEN BELIEVES IN SATAN? The whole premise is that satan is an accuser. It doesn't even imply that satan is a red guy who rules hell and has horns and a pitch fork... that is your imagination as are the fact that demons/evil spirits exist. Any true evil spirits (ra' ruach) came directly from God as in 1 Samuel 16:14.

But that still doesn't change the fact that ERers and Annihilists can't have it both ways. If all who do not believe go to hell, then babies also must because they don't believe.

It is funny that God saves the little children just because they are innocent (yet God says all have sinned) but adults (or whatever age you think they become accountable) are just doomed.

You can't have it both ways. Either you have to believe or you don't.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2009, 11:12 AM
 
2,997 posts, read 2,763,525 times
Reputation: 1716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I don't believe anyone "goes to heaven" or hell for that matter when they die. They go to the grave. They are asleep in the grave until the resurrection. I understand that mentally impaired people, especially the more severe the impairment, may well believe however those they depend on teach them to believe. But does that mean they actually understand the difference? My cousin is one year younger than I am and he is so severly mentally retarded and autistic that he cant even speak. I'm sure God will save him as well as everyone else.

The point is the whole doctrine of original sin coupled with everlasting torture or death means people who do not choose chirst before they die are damned. You are all the ones making theological exlusions to the rule to satisfy and or assuage the obvious theological conundrums with these things in order to hide the obvious difficulties that arise from such doctrines.
Because Christ fulfilled hundreds of prophecies , claimed then proved he was God in the flesh...to which the historical evidence clearly affirms...then we should be very glad that God gave us A WAY in which all people on earth could be forgiven of their many sins and spend an eternity with God the Creator in joy unspeakable. Christ affirmed original sin, life beyond the grave, and said emphatically that Man will go to one of 2 places after death , and forever. Because he proved who he was, you can have complete assurance HE is the way, the absolute truth, and the way to eternal life in Heaven.

In fact, based on his Person and what he did thru the resurrection, it is impossible for Christ to lie or to be a lunatic. EACH must decide who Christ is and make a response to him one way or the other ; that decision will have ramifications ., so, we really need to investigate Christ extremely closely since so much depends on what we decide about him. I hope you will. The best source i have ever found is here : www.impactapologetics.com if you want to thoroughly examine the proof for Christ and the afterlife. Hope to see you one day in Heaven .
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2009, 12:29 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 2,734,656 times
Reputation: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by joetownmom View Post
Just remember that Christians of any sect would not have a Bible had not the Catholic Church - the only CHristian sect for centuries - preserved it until the Reformation Years (1500's) when men like Luther could start to come up with their own take on it.
You have been brainwashed to make such a statement without checking history.

Quote:
2Ti 4:13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring [with thee], and the Bible/books/biblion, [but] especially the parchments.
"Bible" for Jews existed before there were "Jews", and beginning with Enoch, and Noah, and the Patriarchs, the Jews had "Bible", and NT born again in Christ Believers used the existing "Bible" =sacred Scriptures, and the Gospel accounts. Some added the letters of the Apostles, Some never added Paul's letters.
Some NT Believers never added Paul's letters to their "Bible", and only received the Gospel Witnesses.

Here you go.

Quote:
Bible Study: Which Bible? Whose Canon?

Whose Canon? Which Bible?


New Testament

Protestants, Roman Catholics, and Greek Orthodox Christians agree on the same 27 books for the composition of the New Testament; however some smaller groups of Christians do not. The Nestorian, or Syrian church, recognizes only 22 books, excluding 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, Jude and Revelation.
On the other hand, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church includes the same 27 books in its "narrower" canon but adds 8 books to its "broader" canon: "four sections of church order from a compilation called Sinodos, two sections from the Ethiopic Books of Covenant, Ethiopic Clement, and Ethiopic Didascalia."1
Old Testament

The Jewish Bible and the Protestant Old Testament contain the same books but they are arranged in a different order. Additionally, books that Protestant Christians divide into two parts (Kings, Chronicles, Samuel, and Ezra-Nehemiah) are only one book in the Hebrew Bible.
In terms of the Old Testament, Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, and other Eastern Christians claim more "inside books".
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2009, 12:40 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 2,734,656 times
Reputation: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post

It is funny that God saves the little children just because they are innocent (yet God says all have sinned) but adults (or whatever age you think they become accountable) are just doomed.

You can't have it both ways. Either you have to believe or you don't.
You post in total biblical ignorance, in complete foolishness about all that you write about, but as to this point-
God saves little children because of the Atonement. He was always going to come to atone for all the seed of Adam. Rebels against His love and authority and grace, by their own freewill, get their names blotted out of the Book of Life, and it is as if they were never written there, for they are cut off, blotted out, and not found written there anymore.
Accountability does not doom any seed of Adam, but what they do with the Light/Christ, who lights them, does seal their eternal place for themselves.
God is very patient, and He works in our lives patiently, as the Master Gardener of His field [the world], but if there is no fruit, after His labors and love and reaching out to a plant of Adam's seed, then there is finally no remedy but to cut the "plant" down, as a rejected plant.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2009, 12:44 PM
 
8,990 posts, read 8,717,072 times
Reputation: 726
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
It is funny that God saves the little children just because they are innocent (yet God says all have sinned) but adults (or whatever age you think they become accountable) are just doomed.

You can't have it both ways. Either you have to believe or you don't.
It's simple Katjonji because scripture says so, no more no less if scripture said different then I would say the opposite.
Scripture however does not say, they are innocent. Babies are just as wicked and sinful as we are but God's grace and mercy allows them as they are in heaven
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2009, 01:01 PM
 
23,053 posts, read 11,149,070 times
Reputation: 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
It's simple Katjonji because scripture says so, no more no less if scripture said different then I would say the opposite.
It is because scripture seems to say so AS YOU INTERPRET WHAT YOU READ, Fundy . . . a HUGE distinction you are likely to be blindsided by after you die and learn the truth, IMO.
Quote:
Scripture however does not say, they are innocent. Babies are just as wicked and sinful as we are
That you can even state this with a straight face and in all sincerity is a sign that you have NO clue about EITHER what is wicked or sinful OR what is God's true nature.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2009, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,751,441 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
You post in total biblical ignorance, in complete foolishness about all that you write about, but as to this point-
God saves little children because of the Atonement. He was always going to come to atone for all the seed of Adam. Rebels against His love and authority and grace, by their own freewill, get their names blotted out of the Book of Life, and it is as if they were never written there, for they are cut off, blotted out, and not found written there anymore.
You say I am in total biblical ignorance yet I see you as such for all sinners are blotted out of the book.. it makes no difference if they rebel or not.
Exodus 32:33 The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.
Romans 3:23- ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God... ALL have sinned and ALL are blotted out.

You fail to realize that the bible indeed says that ALL SINNERS (including you and babies and me) are blotted out! The only name remaining is Jesus' name.

Quote:
Accountability does not doom any seed of Adam, but what they do with the Light/Christ, who lights them, does seal their eternal place for themselves.
God is very patient, and He works in our lives patiently, as the Master Gardener of His field [the world], but if there is no fruit, after His labors and love and reaching out to a plant of Adam's seed, then there is finally no remedy but to cut the "plant" down, as a rejected plant.
Actually it is said that the plant will be ripped out at the root and a new root is planted... the splendid vine that bears fruit fully.. Jesus.... but what does that have to do with accountability?

Do you think children go to heaven because Jesus died for them? And if so why is it that adults are different?

How can you say that children get a free pass to heaven.. doesn't that mean that if we go around slaughtering children before they can reject Christ in full knowledge that we are indeed saving them from hell?

That makes no sense! Biblically or logically!
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top