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Old 10-19-2009, 09:11 PM
 
218 posts, read 269,082 times
Reputation: 28

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
To those who actually believe that the soul of a baby goes to hell....how can you "love" a god that would do that? That is sick.
Ok so what do you suggest? If we shouldn't love God then who should we love? Don't you see it is the Devil speaking through you trying to convince you that God sends babies to hell when in fact they go to heaven if they died as infants. "The devil wishes nothing more than to draw you, and others doubting God to him so you deny God exists.

Here are your choices of worship:

1. God
2. Satan the Devil
3. Some image or statue
4. Yourself
5. Stuff eg. money, fame, fortune, wealth, and the riches of this world.
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,569,640 times
Reputation: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightinsky View Post
Ok so what do you suggest? If we shouldn't love God then who should we love?
Uhmmm... I think you missed DM's point. Read it again please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
To those who actually believe that the soul of a baby goes to hell....how can you "love" a god that would do that? That is sick.
Get it now? "To those who actually believe that"
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
2,345 posts, read 3,816,043 times
Reputation: 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightinsky View Post
Ok so what do you suggest? If we shouldn't love God then who should we love? Don't you see it is the Devil speaking through you trying to convince you that God sends babies to hell when in fact they go to heaven if they died as infants. "The devil wishes nothing more than to draw you, and others doubting God to him so you deny God exists.

Here are your choices of worship:

1. God
2. Satan the Devil
3. Some image or statue
4. Yourself
5. Stuff eg. money, fame, fortune, wealth, and the riches of this world.


Well for one thing, the devil is not speaking through me thank you very much. I am capable of conjuring up my very own thoughts without the help of imaginary bad guys. And for another thing, I reject your list of choices that I have to worship. I do not choose to worship anything. Why do assume that one HAS to worship something? Says who?
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:44 PM
 
37,545 posts, read 25,255,858 times
Reputation: 5857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightinsky View Post
Ok so what do you suggest? If we shouldn't love God then who should we love? Don't you see it is the Devil speaking through you trying to convince you that God sends babies to hell when in fact they go to heaven if they died as infants. "The devil wishes nothing more than to draw you, and others doubting God to him so you deny God exists.
DaniMae is correct . . . anyone who actually believes babies would go to any form of punishment have no concept of God or His love. However, I would further suggest that a God who would exact an eternal consequence (whether a punishment or not) for evil perpetrated in a finite (less than 100+ years) lifetime is not remotely lovable . . . and is in fact pure evil. A God that would do so indiscriminately (i.e. all sins are equal) is even more evil. That is an absolutely ludicrous and absurd concept of God.The "piece de resistance" would be a God who would do so for a mere failure of belief . . . that is just pure unadulterated nonsense.
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:47 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,818,165 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightinsky View Post
Ephesians is talking about not being able to earn your way by works to heaven since all have sinned and fallend short of God's glory. God is making a point to tell us that although we don't deserve His love He gave it to all who are willing to believe and receive it knowingly. Many churches teach you must do good works along with faith in Christ to go to heaven which is unbiblical, that is what ephesians is trying to convey. When you decide to accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior you must live in obedience and avoid sin at all costs but that doesn't mean you won't ever sin or think impure thoughts. God knows that we all sin and babies don't have the ability to make a decision of right or wrong. I'm not discounting Psalm but what you are not looking at is original sin was paid for the world by the blood of Jesus including innocent unborn fetuses and new born babies. The new testament is a completion of the old and original sin was for those that lived in accordance to the Jewish Law. Not the case for the gentile era where Christ came, died and rose for all who will receive His free gift. Receive means making an educated decision and then living in faith by God's graciousness shall we enter heaven not by what we do in works.
You are correct, that many churches do preach about works as part of the requirement, which is unbiblical.

Original sin is "flesh gives birth to flesh". Psalms is still God's Word, despite you're not willing to apply it.

You have no controll when you're conceived by your human parents, you have no controll over your spiritual coming to life either. Infants have the capibility to belief, without having to make an educated decision.

2 Timothy 3:15
"and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus."

Psalm 58:3
Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward and speak lies



Psalm 22:10
From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother's womb you have been my God.

Psalm 22:10 "I was cast" ---- if this was put in fishing terms, is the Psalmist speaking like he was the one doing the casting, or like there was someone who casted him.

Psalm 58:3 answers the question.....and liars do not go to heaven. Revelation 21:8
whether you think it's fair is another question.

Last edited by twin.spin; 10-19-2009 at 10:04 PM..
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:52 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,818,165 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
To those who actually believe that the soul of a baby goes to hell....how can you "love" a god that would do that? That is sick.
Its not a matter of loving a god....it's a matter of believing that God's word is truth.

Psalm 58:3
Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward and speak lies

2 Timothy 3:15
and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus

Psalm 22:10
From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother's womb you have been my God.
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,391,622 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
To those who actually believe that the soul of a baby goes to hell....how can you "love" a god that would do that? That is sick.
I could not and I won't. If it is ethically wrong to do on earth than I would hope that God had a more JUST system in place for punishment!

For crying out loud people! Has anyone on this forum watched Bruce Almighty? I mean if we look at it from a human perspective.. we are doomed to Bigger breasts and a "yes" to all prayers! That is a human God not a God I would follow let alone worship!!!

If ANYONE is sent to hell then God lied and Jesus propagated that lie that God loves everyone. God wishes all to be saved, Jesus was sent to save ALL that are lost..

Please tell me that God is able to do what he wishes. If it were up to us, we would fry our neighbors in a heartbeat for not giving enough candy at Halloween, but fortunately God is Just and humans are just vengeful!
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Old 10-19-2009, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,391,622 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Its not a matter of loving a god....it's a matter of believing that God's word is truth.

Psalm 58:3
Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward and speak lies

2 Timothy 3:15
and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus

Psalm 22:10
From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother's womb you have been my God.
Have you ever studied the experiment with electric shock that was done by Milgram?

Excerpt from Wikipedia:
The legal and philosophic aspects of obedience are of enormous importance, but they say very little about how most people behave in concrete situations. I set up a simple experiment at Yale University to test how much pain an ordinary citizen would inflict on another person simply because he was ordered to by an experimental scientist. Stark authority was pitted against the subjects' [participants'] strongest moral imperatives against hurting others, and, with the subjects' [participants'] ears ringing with the screams of the victims, authority won more often than not. The extreme willingness of adults to go to almost any lengths on the command of an authority constitutes the chief finding of the study and the fact most urgently demanding explanation.
Ordinary people, simply doing their jobs, and without any particular hostility on their part, can become agents in a terrible destructive process. Moreover, even when the destructive effects of their work become patently clear, and they are asked to carry out actions incompatible with fundamental standards of morality, relatively few people have the resources needed to resist authority.
Also there have been studies done with children versus chimps which have great relevance to the concept of authority and how humans respond by just repeating what they are told... Chimps respond differently however!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIAoJsS9Ix8

The experiment shows that humans copy what others in authority do without regard to moral implications. Sad but true that everyone who believes that God will torture some humans forever, is just following that line of thought without searching out the obvious, that a God of LOVE doesn't torture anyone!
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Old 10-19-2009, 10:17 PM
 
37,545 posts, read 25,255,858 times
Reputation: 5857
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
The experiment shows that humans copy what others in authority do without regard to moral implications. Sad but true that everyone who believes that God will torture some humans forever, is just following that line of thought without searching out the obvious, that a God of LOVE doesn't torture anyone!
. . . either you have to stop posting such great posts or they need to adjust the rep injunction . . . still can't rep ya.
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Old 10-19-2009, 10:27 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,818,165 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I could not and I won't. If it is ethically wrong to do on earth than I would hope that God had a more JUST system in place for punishment!

For crying out loud people! Has anyone on this forum watched Bruce Almighty? I mean if we look at it from a human perspective.. we are doomed to Bigger breasts and a "yes" to all prayers! That is a human God not a God I would follow let alone worship!!!

If ANYONE is sent to hell then God lied and Jesus propagated that lie that God loves everyone. God wishes all to be saved, Jesus was sent to save ALL that are lost..

Please tell me that God is able to do what he wishes. If it were up to us, we would fry our neighbors in a heartbeat for not giving enough candy at Halloween, but fortunately God is Just and humans are just vengeful!
God's will is being done in these verses:
1 John 5:10
" Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son."

Revelation 14:9-11
"If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."

__________________________________________________ ____________
"I could not and I won't. If it is ethically wrong to do on earth than I would hope that God had a more JUST system in place for punishment!"

Then hope that 1 John 5:10 isn't your fate.....but don't hold your breath
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