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Old 10-20-2009, 12:07 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,582,913 times
Reputation: 843

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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Its not a matter of loving a god....it's a matter of believing that God's word is truth.

Psalm 58:3
Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward and speak lies

2 Timothy 3:15
and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus

Psalm 22:10
From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother's womb you have been my God.
Of course, none of these verses say anything about hell. Except in your mind.

Do you realize that you are one of only a handful of people worldwide who adhere to a babies in hell doctrine?

I'm generally nice to all but I must say - your idea here and the image of God in your head is sick sick sick. Ill.
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Old 10-20-2009, 01:57 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,418,381 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
God's will is being done in these verses:
1 John 5:10
" Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son."
I have a problem with this whole chapter but I will try not to let that deter me from responding... I believe God and the testimony given about his Son... So what now?

Quote:
Revelation 14:9-11
"If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."
And what is supposed to be gained from this passage?

Exodus 19:18-19 Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because the LORD descended on it in fire. The smoke billowed up from it like smoke from a furnace, the whole mountain trembled violently,and the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder. Then Moses spoke and the voice of God answered him.

Not sure why you posted that passage so above is another.. Mt sinai is still the same as it ever was even though smoke billowed from it and the who mountain trembled violently! See: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ount_Sinai.jpg

__________________________________________________ ___________
Quote:
"I could not and I won't. If it is ethically wrong to do on earth than I would hope that God had a more JUST system in place for punishment!"

Then hope that 1 John 5:10 isn't your fate.....but don't hold your breath
What fate is that?

1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

LOL I still don't see the fate that you are talking about.

Babies are not condemned to hell and neither is anyone else. Hell as in Dante's inferno "hell" does not exist. The translators of the bible had no right to change Hades, tartaroo, and gehenna into "hell" when the term is foreign to most, if not all, Jews. Even modern day Jews know that any punishment from God is meant for correction not just to burn people for the fun of it!
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Old 10-20-2009, 01:59 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,418,381 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Of course, none of these verses say anything about hell. Except in your mind.

Do you realize that you are one of only a handful of people worldwide who adhere to a babies in hell doctrine?

I'm generally nice to all but I must say - your idea here and the image of God in your head is sick sick sick. Ill.
I agree... If there are exceptions to the eternal hell rule such as babies are exempt until whatever age God deems them coherent enough.. then aren't abortionists doing God's work by killing off these potential sinners before they can be thrown into hell?

Yeah.. when faced with that logic it seems that ET and annihilation are in direct contradiction to the very nature of God... LOVE!
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:55 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,582,913 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I agree... If there are exceptions to the eternal hell rule such as babies are exempt until whatever age God deems them coherent enough.. then aren't abortionists doing God's work by killing off these potential sinners before they can be thrown into hell?
Yep! It would make them America's most successful evangelists!
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Old 10-20-2009, 04:22 AM
 
Location: Pensacola
38 posts, read 38,799 times
Reputation: 13
The closest thing to Heaven is a child....
Babies and children under the age of accountibility are delivered straight into the loving arms of God.
They have yet to be tainted by this world, they are born into sin they themselves are not the sin or the sinner.

They say that babies are so pure that they have the ablility to see what adults cannot. A little off subject, but after having my twins, I can believe that.
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Old 10-20-2009, 04:37 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,582,913 times
Reputation: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by valencort View Post
The closest thing to Heaven is a child....
Babies and children under the age of accountibility are delivered straight into the loving arms of God.
They have yet to be tainted by this world, they are born into sin they themselves are not the sin or the sinner.

They say that babies are so pure that they have the ablility to see what adults cannot. A little off subject, but after having my twins, I can believe that.
This is (of course) beautiful BUT it does open a huge can of worms if you believe (as many fundamentalist Christians do) that living beyond the "age of accountability" is the worst day ever for most humans.

Really, "eternal" damnation is an absolutely unscriptural absurdity. And is philosophical insanity to boot!

As exposed here:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/relig...ults-lost.html
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Old 10-20-2009, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
2,345 posts, read 3,824,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
You are correct, that many churches do preach about works as part of the requirement, which is unbiblical.

Original sin is "flesh gives birth to flesh". Psalms is still God's Word, despite you're not willing to apply it.

You have no controll when you're conceived by your human parents, you have no controll over your spiritual coming to life either. Infants have the capibility to belief, without having to make an educated decision.

2 Timothy 3:15
"and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus."

Psalm 58:3
Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward and speak lies



Psalm 22:10
From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother's womb you have been my God.

Psalm 22:10 "I was cast" ---- if this was put in fishing terms, is the Psalmist speaking like he was the one doing the casting, or like there was someone who casted him.

Psalm 58:3 answers the question.....and liars do not go to heaven. Revelation 21:8
whether you think it's fair is another question.


OH MY God! Did you REALLY just say that infants have the ability to believe?! Babies are clueless....a blank slate....it is scientifically impossible for an infant to choose to believe. I don't care what you think the bible says, it ain't happening!
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Old 10-20-2009, 07:45 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,425,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I agree... If there are exceptions to the eternal hell rule such as babies are exempt until whatever age God deems them coherent enough.. then aren't abortionists doing God's work by killing off these potential sinners before they can be thrown into hell?

Yeah.. when faced with that logic it seems that ET and annihilation are in direct contradiction to the very nature of God... LOVE!

The "age of accountability" doctrine, presents another huge problem (other than its not scriptural).

Its defines "another way" to heaven. (Something ETers generally accuse URers of promoting)

If people can go to heaven before the age of accountability, yahoo! There's another way to get to heaven! Abortionists are the biggest saints! Andrea Yates killing her 5 children did a great work!

But Jesus doesn't get the credit for any of these salvations.
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Old 10-20-2009, 08:11 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,496,865 times
Reputation: 241
Paul taught about the "age of accountability" when he talked about the reach of the Law, and the death that the Law causes.

Paul said that before the Law came (When he was just a kid) he was alive (This supports the Universal Salvation of Children)

Then the Law came...(Paul reached the age of accountability)

Sin took the chance given it because of the Law, and with it came death.

So in other words, Paul is saying that as a child he was alive and not under the death that sinner will die.
But when he grew older he became dead because he reached the age where God begins to hold us to account for our thoughts and deeds.

Then due to hearing the Word, we become born again and are saved...
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Old 10-20-2009, 10:12 AM
 
159 posts, read 195,187 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Paul taught about the "age of accountability" when he talked about the reach of the Law, and the death that the Law causes.

Paul said that before the Law came (When he was just a kid) he was alive (This supports the Universal Salvation of Children)

Then the Law came...(Paul reached the age of accountability)

Sin took the chance given it because of the Law, and with it came death.

So in other words, Paul is saying that as a child he was alive and not under the death that sinner will die.
But when he grew older he became dead because he reached the age where God begins to hold us to account for our thoughts and deeds.

Then due to hearing the Word, we become born again and are saved...
Alan we may not always agree but here you and I do agree. To add to this as well, I think this "age of accountability" is when we are mature enough to understand sin and sacrifice. Adam and Eve were not accountable to God for their nakedness (they were not ashamed) until after they sinned and sin entered the world. Once they understood sin, God placed those animal skins on them to cover up their nakedness. Therefore God then held them accountable for sin. Make sense? And that is just one example of many. I like to go to Matt 18 and read where we are to become as little children upon conversion (verse 3). Why? because they are sinless, innocent children. When we are "born again" (1 Peter 1:23 -by the word as Alan pointed out) we are sinless and therefore like these children (John 3:3-5)
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