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Old 10-20-2009, 10:48 AM
 
159 posts, read 194,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Dalton, in order for it to mean what you say, children would have to be sinless, and we know that is not true.

All have sinned. There is none good, no not one.
So you are telling me the bible teaches that a newborn baby is a sinner and must be saved? Unfortunately he is going to hell because he did not have the capacity to believe? You believe all these aborted babies and new borns are in hell?
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Old 10-20-2009, 10:55 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,409,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaltonG View Post
So you are telling me the bible teaches that a newborn baby is a sinner and must be saved? Unfortunately he is going to hell because he did not have the capacity to believe? You believe all these aborted babies and new borns are in hell?
NO NO NO. No babies will go to an eternal hell of fire and torment.

YES babies are sinners, and will sin given the first opportunity to sin. Babies are awfully selfish if you didn't notice, they want what they want when they want it, and if they don't get it, they cry and scream. Luckily they are also awfully cute and loving.

Yes babies sin. No, babies will not go to "hell". Christ died for their sins, just like He died for everyone else.
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Old 10-20-2009, 10:58 AM
 
159 posts, read 194,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
NO NO NO. No babies will go to an eternal hell of fire and torment.

YES babies are sinners, and will sin given the first opportunity to sin. Babies are awfully selfish if you didn't notice, they want what they want when they want it, and if they don't get it, they cry and scream. Luckily they are also awfully cute and loving.

Yes babies sin. No, babies will not go to "hell". Christ died for their sins, just like He died for everyone else.
So when Jesus says we must believe or we will die in sin (John 8:24) or when He said if you don't repent you will perish (Luke 13:3, 5) you think he was just kidding?
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Old 10-20-2009, 11:04 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,409,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaltonG View Post
So when Jesus says we must believe or we will die in sin (John 8:24) or when He said if you don't repent you will perish (Luke 13:3, 5) you think he was just kidding?
LOL No I don't think he was kidding. Many people will die in thier sin. Many people will perish.

But I guess you must think He is burning babies in hell?!?



Perhaps you are mistakenly assuming "die in sin" and "perish" = "eternal hell and torture in flames forever".
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Old 10-20-2009, 11:08 AM
 
159 posts, read 194,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
LOL No I don't think he was kidding. Many people will die in thier sin. Many people will perish.

But I guess you must think He is burning babies in hell?!?



Perhaps you are mistakenly assuming "die in sin" and "perish" = "eternal hell and torture in flames forever".
That is exactly what He is saying. Matt. 5:30 is an example of perish being "cast into hell" what else would He mean? Show me in the bible so I can understand better.
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Old 10-20-2009, 11:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by DaltonG View Post
That is exactly what He is saying. Matt. 5:30 is an example of perish being "cast into hell" what else would He mean? Show me in the bible so I can understand better.
Matt 5:30 is not talking about "hell". It is talking about Gehenna. Do some research into the confusing translations of the word "hell". (Try reading this article first).


Matt 5:30 `And, if thy right hand doth cause thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast from thee, for it is good to thee that one of thy members may perish, and not thy whole body be cast to gehenna.


Why do you assume "perish" = "eternal torture in hell"? Look at this verse:

Isaiah 57:1 The righteous perish, and no one ponders it in his heart; devout men are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil.

Clearly the righteous are not thrown into eternal torture in hell, yet they still perish.


Yet by your own belief system, you must condemn many babies to this eternal torture that you believe comes from "perishing". The age of accountability is NOT in the scriptures, it is purely invented to get around the "babies in hell" problem.
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Old 10-20-2009, 11:19 AM
 
159 posts, read 194,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Matt 5:30 is not talking about "hell". It is talking about Gehenna. Do some research into the confusing translations of the word "hell". (Try reading this article first).


Matt 5:30 `And, if thy right hand doth cause thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast from thee, for it is good to thee that one of thy members may perish, and not thy whole body be cast to gehenna.


Why do you assume "perish" = "eternal torture in hell"? Look at this verse:

Isaiah 57:1 The righteous perish, and no one ponders it in his heart; devout men are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil.

Clearly the righteous are not thrown into eternal torture in hell, yet they still perish.


Yet by your own belief system, you must condemn many babies to this eternal torture that you believe comes from "perishing". The age of accountability is NOT in the scriptures, it is purely invented to get around the "babies in hell" problem.
It is I have already shown it in previous posts. And under your belief system as you call it, you would say everybody goes to heaven and their is no eternal punishment period.
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Old 10-20-2009, 11:26 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,409,710 times
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Originally Posted by DaltonG View Post
It is I have already shown it in previous posts. And under your belief system as you call it, you would say everybody goes to heaven and their is no eternal punishment period.
Yes everyone will be saved, because God has willed to save all men. There is no eternal punishment, and there is no "hell" as the church has taught us. Yes, there is punishment, but it is not eternal. Yes there is a lake of fire, but it is not "hell".


But back on topic, you haven't really shown "age of accountability" to be a true scriptural doctrine. What you have shown is we need to come to God like a little child.

And I have already shown that doesn't mean children are pure and innocent. So that doesn't mean when we are converted we become as little children. That is not what those verses are saying. No.

We need to come to God with a wide-eyed acceptance - just believe He can do it, like a little child believes something. That is what those verses (Matt 18:3 etc) are saying.

There is no scripture that says children are innocent. Scripture tells us none are good, all are sinners. Therefore there can be no "age of accountability" doctrine. If you feel there is scripture to support it, please summarize it for me.
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Old 10-20-2009, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,394,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaltonG View Post
You are using logic to teach God's will. I see no biblical evidence to back your statement up. If the 8 or 6 year old knows right from wrong and can understand sin then yes he is lost eternally. If he does not then he is not accountable. If a 25 year old has the mind of a 4 year old (I know people in such a condition) and they can not understand sin and Jesus Christ, they will not be accountable for their disobedience or sin. Show where the bible teaches such.

Not even Jesus is discussed until He was 12. He was God yes but came as a man (Phil 2) and was a child who knew no better than any other until He was mature and ready. Yet, He was sinless why? Because children (those who can not yet understand) can not sin.
All of which is subjective. Here's the thing. We deceive ourselves if we think there is an "age of accountability" taught in the bible. I believe all men are saved no matter what the age because Jesus taught that it was not in our power to be innocent.

If what you say about the age of accountability is true, then the mother who drowned her children before the "age of accountability" was doing what was right. And abortionists are killing off potential "hell" dwellers.

AGAIN- IF all men are saved and equal.. without favoritism, then this phantom "age of accountability" has no use.

If you really want to prove your point... then show me the verse where it says eternal punishment for all except those under the age of...

It's not there.
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Old 10-20-2009, 11:36 AM
 
159 posts, read 194,855 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Yes everyone will be saved, because God has willed to save all men. There is no eternal punishment, and there is no "hell" as the church has taught us. Yes, there is punishment, but it is not eternal. Yes there is a lake of fire, but it is not "hell".


But back on topic, you haven't really shown "age of accountability" to be a true scriptural doctrine. What you have shown is we need to come to God like a little child.

And I have already shown that doesn't mean children are pure and innocent. So that doesn't mean when we are converted we become as little children. That is not what those verses are saying. No.

We need to come to God with a wide-eyed acceptance - just believe He can do it, like a little child believes something. That is what those verses (Matt 18:3 etc) are saying.

There is no scripture that says children are innocent. Scripture tells us none are good, all are sinners. Therefore there can be no "age of accountability" doctrine. If you feel there is scripture to support it, please summarize it for me.
Acts 3:19 says when we are converted are sins are blotted out. Matt 3:18 says when we are converted we are as little children. Either it is as you say, which contadicts Acts 3 and you have yet to prove your idea in Matt 18, or it is one in the same.

Sins blotted out = become as little children

Can you disprove that?
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