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Old 10-11-2009, 08:06 PM
 
9,490 posts, read 5,046,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Death still comes to all men.. when did that change? Jesus' sacrifice on the cross PAID FOR ALL SIN.. therefore the sinful little newborn baby has his/her sins paid for before he/she can commit them...

Yeah ... all sin and all sin is paid for by Christ....
Yes, Jesus did pay for all sins. We can agree to that. That doesn't mean all will believe....that is the issue.

The part of babies dying is that death only occures because of sin, sin that we have once we are concieved. My point was what happens to babies that die will have their eternity judged by a merciful God and a just God. Because God's word isn't definitive about it, nobody can be either. Nobody can't argue all babies will or will not (for either scenerio) be saved or damned soley based on scripture....though I do have the faith in a merciful God.


The other distinction is that sin is also a condition, not just actions. We are concieved in sin, not concieved sinning. As such we're all dead spiritually. All Christians are christians because of mercy, not for any other reason.

But to conclude that God must then predestines people or babies to hell is wrong, simply because human reason says that and not God's Word.

The offer of salvation is universal, but not the enterance into heaven.
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Old 10-11-2009, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,751,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Yes, Jesus did pay for all sins. We can agree to that. That doesn't mean all will believe....that is the issue.

The part of babies dying is that death only occures because of sin, sin that we have once we are concieved. My point was what happens to babies that die will have their eternity judged by a merciful God and a just God. Because God's word isn't definitive about it, nobody can be either. Nobody can't argue all babies will or will not (for either scenerio) be saved or damned soley based on scripture....though I do have the faith in a merciful God.


The other distinction is that sin is also a condition, not just actions. We are concieved in sin, not concieved sinning. As such we're all dead spiritually. All Christians are christians because of mercy, not for any other reason.

But to conclude that God must then predestines people or babies to hell is wrong, simply because human reason says that and not God's Word.

The offer of salvation is universal, but not the enterance into heaven.
How is salvation not the entrance to heaven? Are you saying that all men (including babies) can be saved but not enter into heaven?
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:02 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 918,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whos'who View Post
Are new born babies who are not saved and who have not excepted Jesus as their lord and savior, comdemned to hell?
What is the definiton of sin? Breaking God's law.

So I ask you...How did this newborn sin and which of God's laws did this newborn baby break that caused it to be condemed and or a sinner?

Edited to add: Was it an intentional sin or a sin of ommission or and unintentional sin?

Come on people...use some common sense here.
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,751,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
What is the definiton of sin? Breaking God's law.

So I ask you...How did this newborn sin and which of God's laws did this newborn baby break that caused it to be condemed and or a sinner?

Edited to add: Was it an intentional sin or a sin of ommission or and unintentional sin?

Come on people...use some common sense here.
Well the baby is born flesh which is of Adam and has the original sin of course~ and if you have the original sin you are condemned to hell... If that is what you believe that is... cuz I don't believe that anyone is condemned to hell... there is no hell... that is beside the point though...
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:20 PM
 
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again...I know of no Christian church that teaches that an unbaptized baby that died went to hell....
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:28 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,385,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
again...I know of no Christian church that teaches that an unbaptized baby that died went to hell....
Right ... And i don't know any preachers or pastors or whatever you want to call them who perform funerals for unbelievers who talked about how the person who died was in hell writhing in agony in endless tortures everlasting fire ... That doesn't mean they don't believe it.
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Right ... And i don't know any preachers or pastors or whatever you want to call them who perform funerals for unbelievers who talked about how the person who died was in hell writhing in agony in endless tortures everlasting fire ... That doesn't mean they don't believe it.
a moot point...
My comment is the truth...

Unless someone can name a denomination that disagrees with me?.....and I dont think you can...
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:37 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,385,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
a moot point...
My comment is the truth...

Unless someone can name a denomination that disagrees with me?.....and I dont think you can...
Calvanism ... ?
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:42 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 2,337,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Calvanism ... ?
so you mean the Baptist church has an official church teaching that all babies that die go to hell?

Is that your view?
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:43 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,385,302 times
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Here is a scary thought ... If babies get a free pass out of everlasting torment ... Wouldn't it be better for Christians to just kill babies before they become whatever age it is that makes you accountable to sin? I mean seeing as the vast majority of humans that are not babies are doomed to everlasting hell if what fundamentalists believe about those sorta things is true.

I mean abortion doctors are really doing a service for most of the babies they abort after all then right?

You see where this kind if belief system eventually leads to? It is after all a valid point if you believe in ET ...

This thought really starts making frightening sense when you understand the doctrine of election.
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