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Old 10-20-2009, 03:03 PM
 
218 posts, read 269,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Please show me a scripture that says hell is forever.

Thanks,
Legoman
Ok here's one for you.

Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting Fire ."

Everlasting means non stop fire/hell
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:10 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,417,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightinsky View Post
Ok here's one for you.

Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting Fire ."

Everlasting means non stop fire/hell

OK. You guys are missing the point of my question. It just goes to show how warped this word "hell" has become.

Again, Matt 25:41 does not use the word "hell".

Show me a verse, that uses the word "hell", and describes this word "hell" as eternal.

There are only 54 verses to check in the KJV, so it shouldn't take you long to check them all. You won't find such a verse. There is no verse that says "hell" is eternal.
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:11 PM
 
159 posts, read 195,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightinsky View Post
Ok here's one for you.

Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting Fire ."

Everlasting means non stop fire/hell
Yep and Matt 5:22 shows hell fire. Legoman is trying to separate hell and fire and say they are 2 different things. The church is called the kingdom and a house but they are all 3 discussing the same thing. Hell (gehenna) is fire and is eternal. The very word gehenna means that valley of death literally eternal fire. Look at it
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:13 PM
 
159 posts, read 195,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
OK. You guys are missing the point of my question. It just goes to show how warped this word "hell" has become.

Again, Matt 25:41 does not use the word "hell".

Show me a verse, that uses the word "hell", and describes this word "hell" as eternal.

There are only 54 verses to check in the KJV, so it shouldn't take you long to check them all. You won't find such a verse. There is no verse that says "hell" is eternal.
Matt 25:41 says everlasting fire and again gehenna is everlasting fire. Everlasting punishment, fire, destruction, are all the same as gehenna. Just like the church, kingdom, and house of God are all the same. You can not prove otherwise
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:18 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,417,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaltonG View Post
Yep and Matt 5:22 shows hell fire. Legoman is trying to separate hell and fire and say they are 2 different things. The church is called the kingdom and a house but they are all 3 discussing the same thing. Hell (gehenna) is fire and is eternal. The very word gehenna means that valley of death literally eternal fire. Look at it
These are more assertions, but you need to support it from scripture.

"Hell" (actually gehenna) is associated with fire in Matt 5:22. But not eternal fire.

Gehenna literally means "the valley of Hinnom". This was a literal place, a garbage dump where they burned up dead bodies and garbage. The fires didn't go out there. That is where the association with fire comes from. The fires were unquenchable. Yet the fires are no longer burning there today (NOT eternal fire). Did you realize you can visit the valley of Hinnom today? It is a nice green grassy valley outside of Jerusalem. Do a search on google maps to find it and you can see a satellite view. You could go there and claim to have visited "hell", because that is what Jesus was talking about in Matt 5:22!


So again, "hell" (gehenna) is not described as eternal. Are you starting to see how this word "hell" has been confused & mistranslated in order to force a definition of "eternal torture in fire" yet?
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:21 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,417,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaltonG View Post
Matt 25:41 says everlasting fire and again gehenna is everlasting fire. Everlasting punishment, fire, destruction, are all the same as gehenna. Just like the church, kingdom, and house of God are all the same. You can not prove otherwise
LOL It is you who cannot prove "hell" = everlasting fire. There is no such verse.

You know what else is an everlasting fire? GOD. God is a consuming fire and God is everlasting.

Should I now assume "hell" = God?

Sorry to keep harping on this, but the confusing translation of "hell" is one of the big problems with many bibles.
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:23 PM
 
218 posts, read 269,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
These are more assertions, but you need to support it from scripture.

"Hell" (actually gehenna) is associated with fire in Matt 5:22. But not eternal fire.

Gehenna literally means "the valley of Hinnom". This was a literal place, a garbage dump where they burned up dead bodies and garbage. The fires didn't go out there. That is where the association with fire comes from. The fires were unquenchable. Yet the fires are no longer burning there today (NOT eternal fire). Did you realize you can visit the valley of Hinnom today? It is a nice green grassy valley outside of Jerusalem. Do a search on google maps to find it and you can see a satellite view. You could go there and claim to have visited "hell", because that is what Jesus was talking about in Matt 5:22!


So again, "hell" (gehenna) is not described as eternal. Are you starting to see how this word "hell" has been confused & mistranslated in order to force a definition of "eternal torture in fire" yet?
What's your point. If I met a man named Jesus on the street which is fairly common in Latin america does that mean I just met the Christ Yeshua, of course not so why say it is a place in Jerusalem why does that matter. You are trying to discount hell and forever because they are real and that would mean that you would have to change the way you are living.
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:23 PM
 
159 posts, read 195,011 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
These are more assertions, but you need to support it from scripture.

"Hell" (actually gehenna) is associated with fire in Matt 5:22. But not eternal fire.

Gehenna literally means "the valley of Hinnom". This was a literal place, a garbage dump where they burned up dead bodies and garbage. The fires didn't go out there. That is where the association with fire comes from. The fires were unquenchable. Yet the fires are no longer burning there today (NOT eternal fire). Did you realize you can visit the valley of Hinnom today? It is a nice green grassy valley outside of Jerusalem. Do a search on google maps to find it and you can see a satellite view. You could go there and claim to have visited "hell", because that is what Jesus was talking about in Matt 5:22!


So again, "hell" (gehenna) is not described as eternal. Are you starting to see how this word "hell" has been confused & mistranslated in order to force a definition of "eternal torture in fire" yet?
I can not go on at this point because gehenna means more than what you are saying. Here it is not from me but from the greek:

geenna
gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.

It is not talking about a literal valley but figurative because it is a place of eternal fire
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:28 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
6,772 posts, read 11,607,766 times
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The Bible is silent on the fate of the unborn, in these *grey* areas you have to faith that God will save them and I believe He does.

(I believe it applies to babies that are born and haven't been baptized too)
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:33 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,417,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightinsky View Post
What's your point. If I met a man named Jesus on the street which is fairly common in Latin america does that mean I just met the Christ Yeshua, of course not so why say it is a place in Jerusalem why does that matter. You are trying to discount hell and forever because they are real and that would mean that you would have to change the way you are living.

You need to study this a bit more then; because when Jesus talked about gehenna (hell), He was making reference to the literal gehenna, the valley of hinnom, which was a few miles outside of Jerusalem. In that day, everyone around Jerusalem knew what gehenna was, and would understand it to mean the valley of hinnom where they burned up refuse and criminals.

Yes it was used as a symbol - it was a symbol of judgment. It was very dishonorable to be thrown there, it meant you were a criminal not worthy of a proper burial. If you want to understand what Jesus was saying in Matt 5:22 (and Mark 9, etc), you need to realize this. Look at Matt 5:22:

Matt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Do you know what "Raca" means? It is talking about an insult. If you insult your brother, you get judgment from the council. BUT if you call a brother a fool, you go to hell fire. WHAT? HELLFIRE? Does that make sense? Insulting leads to judgment at a council, but calling someone a fool (which is an insult) leads to HELLFIRE?

NO. See how the mistranslation renders this verse to nonsense. The correct meaning there is "gehenna", which in this case simply means another type of judgment.

No one is going to "hell" for calling their brother a fool, yet that is what the faulty KJV translation implies (faulty in this one verse at least).
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