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Old 04-09-2016, 01:19 PM
 
143 posts, read 89,317 times
Reputation: 65

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Quote:
Originally Posted by whos'who View Post
Are new born babies who are not saved and who have not excepted Jesus as their lord and savior, comdemned to hell?
No they're not.

As it says in 2 Samuel 23 "But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me."

King David's baby had just died. As King David said, "I shall go to him" which means that when King David dies and goes to Heaven he will be with his baby which is in Heaven.

God does not condemn children who have not yet reached the Age of Reason. The Age of Reason which in Biblical times was commonly taken to be the age of 13 although it varies from person to person is the age at which God holds a person accountable for accepting Jesus as their savior.
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Old 04-09-2016, 01:56 PM
 
4,602 posts, read 2,275,995 times
Reputation: 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddSteel View Post
No they're not.
As it says in 2 Samuel 23 "But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me."
King David's baby had just died. As King David said, "I shall go to him" which means that when King David dies and goes to Heaven he will be with his baby which is in Heaven.
God does not condemn children who have not yet reached the Age of Reason. The Age of Reason which in Biblical times was commonly taken to be the age of 13 although it varies from person to person is the age at which God holds a person accountable for accepting Jesus as their savior.
Don't you believe as written that David did NOT ascend to heaven ?_______- Acts 2:34
Please keep in mind the only hope for the dead before Jesus opened up the way to heaven was an earthly resurrection.
ALL who died before Jesus died - John 3:13 - are Not called to heaven - Matthew 11:11
Heaven is only for baptized followers of Jesus. The majority of mankind will have a healthy physical resurrection on Earth.
Heaven is only for those who will have a first or earlier resurrection to rule with Christ in heaven - Rev. 20:6; 5:9-10; 2:10

Jesus taught only sleep in death - John 11:11-14 as do the old Hebrew Scriptures - Psalms 115:17; 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Jesus did Not resurrect his friend back from heaven but out of the grave for the sleeping dead.
Jesus resurrected No one to heaven. All of Jesus' resurrections were bringing people back to life on earth.
Jesus' resurrections were a preview, or coming attraction, of what Jesus will be doing on a grand-global scale during his coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth when on Earth ' enemy death ' will be No more. -1st Cor. 15:26; Isaiah 25:8. Earthly resurrection is future - Acts 24:15
Parents are responsible for minor children - 1st Corinthians 7:14
So, David and Bath-sheba will have their infant son resurrected back to healthy physical life on Earth under Christ's rule.
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Old 04-09-2016, 02:19 PM
 
4,602 posts, read 2,275,995 times
Reputation: 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
There is absolutely no scripture to back up the belief that hell IS a real place.
I have yet to see someone prove, with scripture, that hell exists or that anyone resides there....
Care to take the challenge? I will start a new thread.
First of all, to which hell are you referring ?
The Bible's temporary grave for the sleeping dead,
or the permanent religious-myth hell of conscious burning forever

According to Scripture - Acts 2:27- the day Jesus' died Jesus went to the Bible's temporary hell (grave) until God resurrected the dead Jesus out of hell - Acts 13:30,37; Colossians 2:12 B
Since Jesus taught sleep in death - John 11:11-14 - then the dead 'sleep in death' until resurrected out of biblical hell.
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach unconscious sleep in death:
- References: Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4; Daniel 12:2,13; Ecclesiastes 9:5,10

So, until resurrected out of biblical hell (grave) the dead temporarily reside in biblical hell.- Acts 24:15
Please notice at Revelation 20:13-14 that all of the dead in the Bible's hell are ' delivered up ' (KJV) resurrected out of hell.
So, the sleeping dead are resurrected out of the grave, then, emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated biblical hell.
Enemy death will be No more on Earth - 1st Corinthians 15:26 - because temporary biblical hell (the grave) will exist No more ever again. Death will be No more - Revelation 21:4-5; 22:2
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Old 04-09-2016, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,282 posts, read 20,917,166 times
Reputation: 9966
Quote:
Originally Posted by whos'who View Post
Are new born babies who are not saved and who have not excepted Jesus as their lord and savior, comdemned to hell?
That someone would even ask this question boggles the mind.
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Old 04-09-2016, 06:42 PM
 
10,523 posts, read 4,157,425 times
Reputation: 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
That someone would even ask this question boggles the mind.
it used to for me too kat. Now I ask, "what type of brain would say it?" There are not many rational answers as to why to me.
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Old 04-09-2016, 07:12 PM
 
2,531 posts, read 1,944,367 times
Reputation: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Don't you believe as written that David did NOT ascend to heaven ?_______- Acts 2:34
Please keep in mind the only hope for the dead before Jesus opened up the way to heaven was an earthly resurrection.
ALL who died before Jesus died - John 3:13 - are Not called to heaven - Matthew 11:11
Heaven is only for baptized followers of Jesus. The majority of mankind will have a healthy physical resurrection on Earth.
Heaven is only for those who will have a first or earlier resurrection to rule with Christ in heaven - Rev. 20:6; 5:9-10; 2:10

Jesus taught only sleep in death - John 11:11-14 as do the old Hebrew Scriptures - Psalms 115:17; 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Jesus did Not resurrect his friend back from heaven but out of the grave for the sleeping dead.
Jesus resurrected No one to heaven. All of Jesus' resurrections were bringing people back to life on earth.
Jesus' resurrections were a preview, or coming attraction, of what Jesus will be doing on a grand-global scale during his coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth when on Earth ' enemy death ' will be No more. -1st Cor. 15:26; Isaiah 25:8. Earthly resurrection is future - Acts 24:15
Parents are responsible for minor children - 1st Corinthians 7:14
So, David and Bath-sheba will have their infant son resurrected back to healthy physical life on Earth under Christ's rule.

I have already written about the fact that there are different parts of Heaven. There is the Kingdom of Heaven within, Paradise, and the uttermost part of Heaven also called the Throne Room where Jesus went to and that no other man has gone to nor will until the resurrection. David is in Paradise and also properly called Heaven because it is a part of Heaven but not the Heaven of Heavens. The uttermost part is mentioned by Jesus.


MK 13:27 "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."
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Old 04-09-2016, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
2,202 posts, read 1,323,575 times
Reputation: 1353
Babies cannot repent for sin they have no recognition of . Original sin is a manufacture attempt to rid the newborn of inherited sin via our sinful nature yet again that nature NOT recognized !!! Beware of religion attempting to suggest infant baptism ( most Catholics have little idea why children are baptised ( after interrogating a dozen) they believe its dedicating the infant to the church. They also had nearly zero explanation for church dogmas or their origins ( not for us to know that's for priests to know)....really? Soooo with all that said babies are saved as are fetuses . Man made up the damnible script not understanding Gods word. Man ....go away! Let God suffer the children to come to Him. For those who have no idea what I just said . Ya can't sin as an infant and are not accountable anyone who says otherwise is steeped in religousity nonesense!

Last edited by openmike; 04-09-2016 at 07:52 PM..
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Old 04-09-2016, 08:05 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,825,065 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by openmike View Post
Babies cannot repent for sin they have no recognition of . Original sin is a manufacture attempt to rid the newborn of inherited sin via our sinful nature yet again that nature NOT recognized !!! Beware of religion attempting to suggest infant baptism ( most Catholics have little idea why children are baptised ( after interrogating a dozen) they believe its dedicating the infant to the church. They also had nearly zero explanation for church dogmas or their origins ( not for us to know that's for priests to know)....really? Soooo with all that said babies are saved as are fetuses . Man made up the damnible script not understanding Gods word. Man ....go away! Let God suffer the children to come to Him. For those who have no idea what I just said . Ya can't sin as an infant and are not accountable anyone who says otherwise is steeped in religousity nonesense!
Too bad that the same people over and over refuse to read the truth:
This includes infants:
Ecclesiastes 7:20
Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins.

Ezekiel 18:20
The one who sins is the one who will die.
The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child.

Isaiah 53:6
We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Romans 3:19
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law,
so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.


Romans 3:10
As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
funny how people claim they believe God what he reveals in the Bible --- only to then not to.
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Old 04-09-2016, 08:29 PM
 
37,579 posts, read 25,282,626 times
Reputation: 5860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
That someone would even ask this question boggles the mind.
Prior to this forum, I had no idea the extent of human ignorance, Katz. It has been a real eye-opener.
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Old 04-09-2016, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,282 posts, read 20,917,166 times
Reputation: 9966
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Prior to this forum, I had no idea the extent of human ignorance, Katz. It has been a real eye-opener.
The thing is, you can find evidence for just about any stance you want to take on any point of doctrine you want to discuss. But when you do that, you put yourself in the position of having to simply ignore the existence of all of the passages of scripture that refute your stance. Clearly, some people are willing to do just that. But when it comes to condemning babies to Hell, these guys just go too far. What kind of a God would punish a newborn baby who dies? And what kind of a person would worship such a God?
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