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Old 04-13-2016, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,460 posts, read 4,319,966 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
What I see reading here is a number of people who seem to feel that God might send babies and children to Hell.


Amazing .
It is astonishing what people will say of hell especially when they really don't know what it is. I find it astonishing that fundies might say that babies, Atheists, Muslims, Hindus are all going to hell.


I don't see a hell like that at all, the fire is symbolic just as the worm that never dies is symbolic. It doesn't mean you go to hell, it means that you don't get in the first resurrection and you will be alive but not with a transformed body. The worm that never dies is a seed that needs the rain to fall so that it may die and bear fruit. If the rain of Sukkot doesn't fall on your sukkot seed, then the worm in that seed will never die.


The hell spoken of is about people who don't get transformed, they weep and gnash their teeth from the outer court of darkness which means they are in the kingdom but they are the least in the kingdom. Christians, Muslims, even Atheist in my opinion, they all go to the same place while other go to a higher Zoe kingdom of heaven that the majority will never step foot in.
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Old 04-13-2016, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,303 posts, read 20,988,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
LOL, probably right, how bout the ones who say Hitler is saved because he believed in Christ?
Well, they'd be wrong, wouldn't they? Because a mere "belief" in Christ no more saves someone than do "works."
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Old 04-13-2016, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,460 posts, read 4,319,966 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Well, they'd be wrong, wouldn't they? Because a mere "belief" in Christ no more saves someone than do "works."


I am to the opinion that most everyone is saved pretty much, salvation is extremely broad, and salvation is in the outer court with the burnt offering where everyone must first come up to God.


There are 3 sections in heaven and this is the thing that should be known because when you are showing the sexual immoral, the liars and the thieves saying,'' They shall not enter the kingdom of heaven,'' this is referring to people who will not be able to enter into the higher Zoe kingdom, it doesn't mean they aren't saved, it means they will never enter the Temple proper.


Just like these people where you see salvation, and then you see reward. The people who have obtained the prize get rewarded, and there are the majority whose works will be tested by fire and they die by fire, but they are still saved.




1 Corinthians 3
12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
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Old 04-13-2016, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,651 posts, read 32,119,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
I find it astonishing that fundies might say that babies, Atheists, Muslims, Hindus are all going to hell.
It is actually very rare to hear anyone say babies go to hell. Other than that, why do you suggest you have to be a "fundie" to believe unbelievers go to hell? It is a commonly held view of most Christian denominations, including Catholics.
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Old 04-13-2016, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,460 posts, read 4,319,966 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
It is actually very rare to hear anyone say babies go to hell. Other than that, why do you suggest you have to be a "fundie" to believe unbelievers go to hell? It is a commonly held view of most Christian denominations, including Catholics.


The pattern of the Temple is designed EXACTLY TO SHADOW the kingdom of heaven and this is in 3 sections. The people who stand in the outer court weep and gnash they teeth. Walking into the temple of God is showing a progressive walk where you are saved in the outer court of darkness. It is called the court of darkness because it is compared to the Menorah inside the Holy place, and the light of the Menorah is the light of God while the sun's light is shown as darkness in comparison. There is a huge sign that stands in the court reading,'' No gentiles past this point.''


But a Gentile can actually become a part of Israel and if he dies daily in the court, then he can enter into the Holy place where the bread and light of God are found, and if he becomes perfect, he will be as the Cohen Hagadol, that high priest, the only one who enters into the Holy of Holies.


When people throw out all the Jewish idioms, traditions and rituals, then the meaning of hell escapes them just as it is with the worm that does not die, it is speaking of the seed of Tabernacles receiving rain and then dying to bear fruit.


We see Jesus saying that you can choose not to keep the law, and then teach others not to keep it, and you can even speak against Christ himself and still be saved, albeit, the least in the kingdom.


We see those sexual immoral, the liars, and the cheats without the city, BUT YET, they are still there.


We see the works of all men tested by fire and some will burn, and yet, they themselves saved.


But if a person does not know the Temple design, he doesn't know the design of the kingdom of heaven and the difference between the 3 sections. The Zoe Kingdom of abundant life is specifically showing the Temple proper, and even the Holy of holies..... When it says that no liar or drunk or sexual immoral will enter into the higher Zoe Kingdom, it doesn't mean they go to hell, it means that they did not obtain the prize, the reward, the first resurrection.


Salvation is very broad, and those people who are saved with salvation alone will weep and gnash their teeth when they have tried to enter the higher kingdom and then escorted out of that higher kingdom but yet they are still there. Jesus talks about the law breakers when he replied to those believers who taught his name in the streets and did miracles in his name, but he says to those people who practice lawlessness,'' Depart from me, I never knew you.''


They say,'' We taught your name in the streets, we did miracles in your name.''


They are saved but they are separated and appointed their place in the outer court.
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Old 04-13-2016, 05:24 PM
 
37,660 posts, read 25,365,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
It is actually very rare to hear anyone say babies go to hell. Other than that, why do you suggest you have to be a "fundie" to believe unbelievers go to hell? It is a commonly held view of most Christian denominations, including Catholics.
That was the purpose of focusing on belief in Jesus. It enabled the growth of Churches and the need for membership in them to partake in the salvation Christ achieved for us all. By pretending that you need to believe a particular set of things ABOUT Jesus and God (only found in their religion) the seeds of religiosity were planted and nurtured. So that today, the Gospel of Christ is virtually ignored and corrupted by the "precepts and doctrines of men" in the religions who claim to represent Him. They pretend that the Gospel is believing what they tell you to believe ABOUT Jesus, but that is NOT the Gospel of Jesus. The Gospel (or Good News) is that God is NOT counting our sins against us, we are saved from eternal separation from God by Jesus, and there is no need to fear death because it is actually a rebirth as Spirit into a spiritual body to join Jesus and God. Everything else is Bad News or human vanity and hubris writ large.

Last edited by MysticPhD; 04-13-2016 at 06:02 PM..
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Old 04-13-2016, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,651 posts, read 32,119,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
The pattern of the Temple is designed EXACTLY TO SHADOW the kingdom of heaven and this is in 3 sections. The people who stand in the outer court weep and gnash they teeth. Walking into the temple of God is showing a progressive walk where you are saved in the outer court of darkness. It is called the court of darkness because it is compared to the Menorah inside the Holy place, and the light of the Menorah is the light of God while the sun's light is shown as darkness in comparison. There is a huge sign that stands in the court reading,'' No gentiles past this point.''


But a Gentile can actually become a part of Israel and if he dies daily in the court, then he can enter into the Holy place where the bread and light of God are found, and if he becomes perfect, he will be as the Cohen Hagadol, that high priest, the only one who enters into the Holy of Holies.


When people throw out all the Jewish idioms, traditions and rituals, then the meaning of hell escapes them just as it is with the worm that does not die, it is speaking of the seed of Tabernacles receiving rain and then dying to bear fruit.


We see Jesus saying that you can choose not to keep the law, and then teach others not to keep it, and you can even speak against Christ himself and still be saved, albeit, the least in the kingdom.


We see those sexual immoral, the liars, and the cheats without the city, BUT YET, they are still there.


We see the works of all men tested by fire and some will burn, and yet, they themselves saved.


But if a person does not know the Temple design, he doesn't know the design of the kingdom of heaven and the difference between the 3 sections. The Zoe Kingdom of abundant life is specifically showing the Temple proper, and even the Holy of holies..... When it says that no liar or drunk or sexual immoral will enter into the higher Zoe Kingdom, it doesn't mean they go to hell, it means that they did not obtain the prize, the reward, the first resurrection.


Salvation is very broad, and those people who are saved with salvation alone will weep and gnash their teeth when they have tried to enter the higher kingdom and then escorted out of that higher kingdom but yet they are still there. Jesus talks about the law breakers when he replied to those believers who taught his name in the streets and did miracles in his name, but he says to those people who practice lawlessness,'' Depart from me, I never knew you.''


They say,'' We taught your name in the streets, we did miracles in your name.''


They are saved but they are separated and appointed their place in the outer court.
OK, so why do you suggest you have to be a "fundie" to believe unbelievers go to hell, when it is a commonly held view of most Christian denominations, including Catholics?
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Old 04-13-2016, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,592 posts, read 7,063,813 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Are you able to actually answer twin's points? Or are you just going to insult him instead? That's what's telling.
rwin did not MAKE any points: he made 4 NON-points.
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Old 04-14-2016, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,460 posts, read 4,319,966 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
OK, so why do you suggest you have to be a "fundie" to believe unbelievers go to hell, when it is a commonly held view of most Christian denominations, including Catholics?


I am not a Christian, not a Protestant, Not a Catholic and I view the whole bible different, from a Jewish view.


I don't have anything in common with Protestants or Catholics, I have a completely different worship system, different Sabbath, feasts, traditions and rituals.


I see Revelation as written to every generation because I know Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, the feast of Tabernacles and Shemini Atzereth.


Christians wouldn't know what I am talking about because they have a completely different worship system.


If I use the word,'' Fundi,'' It's Christian, not what I am.


Maybe I don't know what I am, but here I am.
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Old 04-14-2016, 01:42 AM
 
Location: Redding, Ca
1,240 posts, read 1,025,575 times
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If one notices in the bible in the book of Genesis, chapter Gen_2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Adam was created a living soul in a state of innocence, much like a baby. Later, tested via the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

The sentence was: Gen_3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Then?Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Ye die!

A babies eyes can not be opened and therefore, can not be as gods. Technically, babies are as pure as angels.

Opened eyes here is meant, spiritual awareness of the differences of good and evil.

Blessings, AJ
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