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Old 04-15-2016, 08:28 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Not at all. The verses you have provided do not support the view that babies go to hell.

Babies minds are not governed by wickedness, they do not commit sins, and Jesus said you should me more like children.
The verses point out that babies are infected with original sin from conception which Jesus specifically phrases it as "flesh gives birth to flesh".

The verses also unequivocally rebut all false teachings that babies are sinless or at worst neutral when conceived\born.

The verses also unequivocally rebut the lie that faith and wickedness aren't present in a baby in the womb.

Finally, if allowed to speak for themselves, God is very clear that all humanity at any age is infected with sin, which all are accountable to.
__________________________________________________ ____

Where I do not go (purposefully) is provide a blanket yes\no definitive answer in a area where God remains silent in.

It is a satanical desire to peer into the Judge's domain and presuppose your conclusion, no less than to presuppose otherwise to your conclusion.
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Old 04-15-2016, 08:48 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
No one is righteous, and that includes you. Does that mean you are going to hell?

Crying is not sinful. What sins do new born babies or aborted babies commit?

None.

And their minds are not governed by wickedness either, because that comes later as they grow up.
The bold finn is silly ! As you know full well that twin has believed and turned and repented and to make that statement is unbelievable ! There is no comparison with using babies and an adult who knows to make the choice . It seems you are arguing to be arguing !!


Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
That's not the issue at hand.


Never said crying was.

There is
  • sins - plural resulting from thought, word and action on a person's part
and then there is
  • sin - singular resulting from original condition of
"Flesh gives birth to flesh"
"In sin my mother conceived me"
both truths are from God thus making apparent what the self answer of "none" is.

The gift from God is faith by grace, not the gift of God is human choice or reason.
What twin is trying to show you finn and everyone on this thread is that everyone of us are born with the sin nature and that there is the reason we all, baby, child or adult are headed for hell .
We are dead in our trespasses and sins, born with the curse because of Adam and Eves disobedience and are promised to all who are born from that time forward to be born with the curse, the sin nature that opposes every thing according to God's will . No one is exempted from this curse !

Regardless of our feelings, emotions about the thought of a tiny baby and their supposed innocence !! They along with everyone else are born with the nature to be our own god, to do our own thing rather then doing what God wills !!

I understand what twin is saying, no matter what everyone of us is born with that curse hanging over our lives, blinded to the will of God even while we were conceived and in our Mothers womb . What you fail to understand it doesn't matter whether it be baby, child or adult we all are in this predicament together and are in a need of a Savior . And it is up to God who will allow, permit a person to come to that age where one understands this dilemma and have been given the blessed opportunity to repent of our nature of unbelief as He knows our beginning and our end of life ! Who will repent and who will not believe Him !

People forget God does not think or do as men does, He even says that in His word,

"Isaiah 55:7-9 (NASB)
7 Let the wicked forsake his way
And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
And let him return to the Lord,
And He will have compassion on him,
And to our God,
For He will abundantly pardon.
8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts."

I believe there is going to be a lot of things once we are face to face with God in our day of judgement that will surprise the heck out of us of what we declared to be from God and are wrong at so many levels and placed it upon Him !

And yes, Finn, everyone of the scripture that twin has given speaks of the testimony that babies are not exempted from this dilemma !! As you have not provided God's truth only your feelings on this subject which in judgement our feelings of what is fair or not will not count in the face of God Almighty. Yet it shows a act of defiance toward Him and His will for mankind !! Sorry, and I do mean that sincerely, but that is what I believe !!


Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
This bears repeating again because God is the God of comfort for the soul of parents.
1COR 7:14 "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but they are now Holy." Their Angels do always behold the face of the Father. This is the irrevocable Word of God. Holiness allows children to come into the presence of God now and then latter if they die in that state as adult.


The children are made Holy/free of their inherited sin and He takes away their committed and ignorant sins daily when young but when they become older they must take up the cross daily as everyone else has to. This Scripture is speaking to believers children for believers peace of mind toward their children and especially if they die young.


Non believers do not care but that does not mean that God has no plan for their children also because He does and desires that all be saved.
But who know which, children of believers or non believers will be saved in the end when all come to the age of accountability because It is written;
MT 24:12 "And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
MT 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
Thank you Gary for this scripture and this is the very reason I am glad God is God and don't have to deal with this dilemma about babies going to heaven or hell .
That scripture brought comfort to me many of times when it came to my hb and son and their unbelief and choosing not to listen to God . Yet, my hb has finely come to the place he now believes the gospel of Jesus Christ and repented of his sin and lives for Christ. Eighteen yrs I lived and dealt with his hatred toward God . But I stayed on my knees till I saw heaven come down upon his life, amen !! And that very scripture brought peace at many times to get me through those difficult times !
Nothing worse in this world then to live with a man that hates God


Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
The verses point out that babies are infected with original sin from conception which Jesus specifically phrases it as "flesh gives birth to flesh".

The verses also unequivocally rebut all false teachings that babies are sinless or at worst neutral when conceived\born.

The verses also unequivocally rebut the lie that faith and wickedness aren't present in a baby in the womb.

Finally, if allowed to speak for themselves, God is very clear that all humanity at any age is infected with sin, which all are accountable to.
__________________________________________________ ____

Where I do not go (purposefully) is provide a blanket yes\no definitive answer in a area where God remains silent in.

It is a satanical desire to peer into the Judge's domain and presuppose your conclusion, no less than to presuppose otherwise to your conclusion.
Awe, you posted this when I was writing mine and is everything I was trying to say !!
Thank you for the confirmation on what God was trying to get me to see through this whole thread . As I too was struggling with the thought of babies yet God has revealed His truth to my heart . Difficult to accept but it is faith that God knows what He is doing and am grateful for Him regardless of my emotions, amen !!
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Old 04-15-2016, 08:55 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,810,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
When God's says the children are Holy it is because He takes away the sin and nothing you say will change His mind. This has nothing to do with whether you believe in accountability or not. But God is accountable to fulfill His Word to the children as to what is written. You seem to miss the bigger picture and are stuck on sin whereas God takes it away. But you say they are still filthy. Who is telling the truth, you or God?
Correct "God is accountable to fulfill His Word"... all of it.

His word states:
"Flesh gives birth to flesh" ~ Jesus

"All have turned away,

they have together become worthless;

there is no one who does good, not even one.”

"The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies." (KJV)
and His word states:
Psalm 22:10
From birth I was cast on you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God.


Psalm 51:6
Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb; you taught me wisdom in that secret place.
The greatest comfort to the above Psalms is that God is pro-active according to his ways alone.
He does not reveal where the dividing line that determines yes from no.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:12 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,039,494 times
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Amen , Twin !!
Now that I understand what the Spirit is saying through your post it has given such peace and that God is providing food for my spirit to feed upon and that it all now is making sense to me and has become very clear in what the Spirit is saying, amen !!
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:13 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,810,005 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post


Awe, you posted this when I was writing mine and is everything I was trying to say !!
Thank you for the confirmation on what God was trying to get me to see through this whole thread . As I too was struggling with the thought of babies yet God has revealed His truth to my heart . Difficult to accept but it is faith that God knows what He is doing and am grateful for Him regardless of my emotions, amen !!
Yes, having a faith which trusts God that he knows what He is doing is difficult.

As I said earlier the greatest comfort to the Psalm 22:10 and Psalm 51:6 is that God is pro-active according to his ways alone.

He says:
"I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."
He does not reveal where that dividing line is. To presuppose either way is not ours to do.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:17 AM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,462,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
post 448 is the answer which in this case has no definitive yes or no answer.

I didn't ask for a definitive answer as to if they WOULD go to Hell, I ask for an answer as to whether in YOUR theology they possibly COULD go to Hell.

You seem to not have the willingness to say yes or no openly, and hide behind quoting Bible verses .
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
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Psalm 22:10 and 51:6 suggest that unborn babies are desiring faithfulness and have some kind of relationship with the Judeo-Christian God.

That seems to contradict your thesis.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:19 AM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,462,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Why are you assuming that the babies of a people that had practiced idolatry and human sacrifice (including babies) for hundreds of years were any less guilty?
Guilty of what exactly ?
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:21 AM
 
6,813 posts, read 3,131,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Why are you assuming that the babies of a people that had practiced idolatry and human sacrifice (including babies) for hundreds of years were any less guilty?
Because they are babies? Babies do not sin. Babies do not commit crime. Babies are hospitable creatures.

It is ignorance and superstition that seems to think babies are inherently evil.

Did your girls sin in the cradle? Name their sin, Viz. I am unfamiliar with the sin of babies. Please enlighten me.

The Planned Parenthood Christian killer. Surely evil. How about his children? Are they evil, too? Should I worry about their actions? How about his first wife? Is she evil? Should I worry about her doing evil deeds?
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,475 posts, read 31,862,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Where I do not go (purposefully) is provide a blanket yes\no definitive answer in a area where God remains silent in.

It is a satanical desire to peer into the Judge's domain and presuppose your conclusion, no less than to presuppose otherwise to your conclusion.
I have not asked for a yes/no answer, but its good you are not offering one, because it tends to support what I have been saying.
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