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Old 04-15-2016, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,280 posts, read 20,893,921 times
Reputation: 9963

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post
I know what you believe and I disagree completely and we'll just leave it to that !
If you don't wish to comment on my posts except to say that you disagree, that's fine with me. I just hope you don't think that means I'm going to stop sharing what I believe to be true; the whole point of this forum is dialogue, and just saying, "I'm right and you're wrong" is a pretty ineffectual way of communicating. But it's all good. There are enough people posting here who do want to try to understand other people's perspectives that it makes for interesting conversation and better educated Christians.
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Old 04-15-2016, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
12,920 posts, read 4,933,396 times
Reputation: 4995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post
Believe whatever you want !
I believe that I am Justin Bieber.
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Old 04-15-2016, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
12,920 posts, read 4,933,396 times
Reputation: 4995
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
We both know that you are not likely to believe either, but which perception makes the most sense to you and which personality is more likely to give you something worthwhile?
Neither perception is based in reality. A belief that I have a hot date with Jennifer Lopez tonight (or a toilet made out of solid gold) might give me something worthwhile, but it's just not in the cards now is it?

Last edited by Freak80; 04-15-2016 at 02:57 PM..
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Old 04-15-2016, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
12,920 posts, read 4,933,396 times
Reputation: 4995
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15 View Post
I love romans 9:18

Which version are you getting yours from TS? Cause yours doesn't quite match.

New International Version
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
That verse would seem to support the traditional Calvinist position on salvation.

According to that verse, it's not my fault that I'm an atheist. God made me that way. Take it up with him.
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Old 04-15-2016, 03:03 PM
 
19,952 posts, read 12,981,273 times
Reputation: 1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I don't really think it's a matter of presupposing innocence. Just give us one example of a sin a newborn baby is even capable of committing. You can't do something you're incapable of. That's the point here.
You're presupposing that a person is a sinner because he sins. The Bible says a person sins because they're a sinner.

Do you realize that the Bible says that by default human beings are born in sin and we are sinners from birth?

Psalm 51:5, Eph 2:3
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Old 04-15-2016, 03:30 PM
 
Location: GOVERNMENT of TRAITORS & NAZIS
20,590 posts, read 22,744,710 times
Reputation: 7630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
You're presupposing that a person is a sinner because he sins. The Bible says a person sins because they're a sinner.

Do you realize that the Bible says that by default human beings are born in sin and we are sinners from birth?

Psalm 51:5, Eph 2:3
It also says we are GREAT from the start--

I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. Somehow it doesn't sound like sin to me?
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Old 04-15-2016, 03:33 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,044,564 times
Reputation: 17783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
If you don't wish to comment on my posts except to say that you disagree, that's fine with me. I just hope you don't think that means I'm going to stop sharing what I believe to be true; the whole point of this forum is dialogue, and just saying, "I'm right and you're wrong" is a pretty ineffectual way of communicating. But it's all good. There are enough people posting here who do want to try to understand other people's perspectives that it makes for interesting conversation and better educated Christians.
Wow, that was pretty snarky reply ! Stop you from posting what ever gave you that kind of thought .. LOL.
See that is just why I won't go into it with you ! I know what the Mormon belief teaches . I live among them and have family that hold to this belief . So there is nothing your going to tell me that I already have been EDUCATED in especially with the teaching of Mormonism and do know how you feel about things . I have been around for sometime matter fact eight yrs in this forum and do read your post, so whatever !

And by the way I never have had that attitude toward you nor have I ever said, "I'm right and you're wrong" to you !

Yes, this forum is full of ppl who have their interpretations and all they ever accomplish is arguing about who is right and who is wrong . To me that is not dialoguing nor is it learning a darn thing . To much pride floats in this place and it seems no one wants to be humble and really want to learn and really listen about other's faith !
Matter fact every time I post all I ever get from ppl here is how evil are the things I believe and name calling, a whole lot of insulting, now is that learning ? So don't give that bull about "people's perspectives that it makes for interesting conversation and better educated Christians" cause that isn't what goes on in this forum and you know that !
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Old 04-15-2016, 03:38 PM
 
19,952 posts, read 12,981,273 times
Reputation: 1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
It also says we are GREAT from the start--

I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. Somehow it doesn't sound like sin to me?
We are made in God's image...but stained with sin.
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Old 04-15-2016, 04:16 PM
 
37,531 posts, read 25,255,858 times
Reputation: 5857
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Twin and the fundies reveal the utter evil in their dogma when they claim that if babies die they go to their fictitious eternal torment. The utter ignorance and barbaric idiocy of such beliefs is beyond the pale. They believe in religion, NOT Jesus and God. It is a travesty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post
Now that I understand what the Spirit is saying through your post it has given such peace and that God is providing food for my spirit to feed upon and that it all now is making sense to me and has become very clear in what the Spirit is saying, amen !!
Can you tell us what are the characteristics of this Spirit you are following that convince you it is the Holy Spirit or Comforter???? Are you just telling yourself that the Spirit agrees with the "precepts and doctrines of men" you have been taught or do you actually test the Spirit against the characteristics of the Spirit revealed by Jesus????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
According to MysticPhD, the Spirit is saying something completely different.
May I suggest that The Spirit = A Person's Own Ego?
You have been told many times what the Spirit is and how we know what its characteristics are so there is no confusion or ambiguity about what the standard of truth IS, Freak. Why do you pretend that it is arbitrary, capricious or simply individual ego bias????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post
May I suggest to listen to God through Jesus Christ !
If you follow what Mystic says which is completely opposing the will of God and if you choose to follow what he says you will find yourself where you don't want to go !!
What are the things that you accuse me of that oppose the Spirit and are against God's will??? What is your TEST of the Spirit that you use to evaluate what I say against the Spirit???? It sounds very much like YOUR beliefs are the basis for the Spirit and anything that disagrees with YOUR beliefs is not of the Spirit. Is there some other more objective and unbiased way to test the Spirit - perhaps by its characteristics???
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Old 04-15-2016, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,280 posts, read 20,893,921 times
Reputation: 9963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
You're presupposing that a person is a sinner because he sins.
Duh. Yeah, that's what I'm "presupposing." A person is a skier if he skis. A person is a debater if he debates. A person is a painter if he paints. A person is a murderer if he murders. A person is a liar if he lies. A person is not a skier, a debater, a painter, a murderer or a liar simply because he exists and has the potential to be one or more of those things.

Quote:
The Bible says a person sins because they're a sinner.
Yeah? Would you mind quoting that verse?

Quote:
Do you realize that the Bible says that by default human beings are born in sin and we are sinners from birth?
No, I do not realize that, because I don't believe it says that at all. It says we are born with a sinful nature. That means we are predisposed to sin, as I've already stated. God punishes only the guilty. He would not be a just God if He punished the innocent. And yet neither you nor anyone yet has told me what a tiny baby could conceivably be guilty of.
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