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Old 04-17-2016, 10:08 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,821,504 times
Reputation: 1302

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Choir Loft View Post
What is the definition of sin?

The answer to this question will decide the answer to your question.

Christians generally despise the old testament because it contains a lot of Jewish laws - over 600 if you include the full count. Because they despise the law and the prophets, Christians have arrived at a skewed understanding of how God looks at things. ....

Like sin, for instance.

A baby is incapable of sin.
True. The despising of God will often skew people on how God look at things, thus your skewed opinion "like sin, for instance."
God's view is:
"In sin my mother conceived me" ... OT

"Flesh gives birth to flesh" ... NT ~ Jesus

"I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God," ... NT
That is why Jesus said one has to be born again to Nicodemus.
The reason is because humanity comes onto the scene spiritual enemies of God as Nicodemus concludes from the womb:
“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot
enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2) Your opposition to child baptism is also the result of preferring your hollering in the loft over God's Word.
"Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to the spirit" ~ JESUS

How this is done is by by of one means Christ instituted which is through baptism:
"he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy.
He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit
,
"
~ Titus 3:5
"and this water [the flood at Noah] symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the
removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.
It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

How about stop insisting on hollering from the loft and listening to what God says.
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Old 04-17-2016, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,282 posts, read 20,904,862 times
Reputation: 9964
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choir Loft View Post
God doesn't punish possibilities (as men do). He punishes the act.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Keep on hollering, because you've got it right.
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Old 04-17-2016, 12:09 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,046,369 times
Reputation: 17783
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
True. The despising of God will often skew people on how God look at things, thus your skewed opinion "like sin, for instance."
God's view is:
"In sin my mother conceived me" ... OT

"Flesh gives birth to flesh" ... NT ~ Jesus

"I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God," ... NT
That is why Jesus said one has to be born again to Nicodemus.
The reason is because humanity comes onto the scene spiritual enemies of God as Nicodemus concludes from the womb:
“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot
enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2) Your opposition to child baptism is also the result of preferring your hollering in the loft over God's Word.
"Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to the spirit" ~ JESUS

How this is done is by by of one means Christ instituted which is through baptism:
"he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy.
He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit
,
"
~ Titus 3:5
"and this water [the flood at Noah] symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the
removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.
It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

How about stop insisting on hollering from the loft and listening to what God says.
Amen, once again !
Nicodemus is one of the excellent scripture to reveal that any of us not born again can not inherit the kingdom of God, whether baby, toddler, teenager, young adult, or an adult, period !

When we are born it is, "Flesh gives birth to flesh," we are not born in the Spirit but the flesh !! And until we can acknowledge that we are born in the flesh (sin) which can not inherit the kingdom of God, that old man, our sin nature is in this dilemma and the consequences of it is we all will inherit eternal damnation !
God's truth (His word) is what stands forever . It will never change regardless of what a human soul' emotions, will, tells them ! It seems ppl are putting God at the level of mankind's ways and thoughts and that is a very dangerous way of thinking, actually it is a form of unbelief, walking in opposition to the known will of God !

Ppl need to understand how important it is that we deny our flesh (self, emotions) and realize that especially that God's ways, thoughts are not man's way's, thoughts and He says that with no exceptions ! It is by faith we have to acknowledge this and trust the Lord that He knows what He is doing in all His ways no matter what, regardless how awful it sounds about a baby going to hell and what our emotions try to convince and make us believe .
Yes, it is difficult too understand and accept it, yet, if ppl don't turn and listen to what is being said about the will of God and respecting, reverencing our Heavenly Father God and His ways over our "self" (the flesh) by denying "self" just as Christ has told us to walk, it will not go well for any of us !

Look at all the ppl who have gone before us like Abraham, Joshua, Job, David, many of them that walked by faith in obedience to God and didn't know what or where they would go or end up, what would happen to their lives, but they trusted God with all their hearts . Yet, today because of them revealed in the scripture we too can trust God even with this subject that He is in control of all things. This is why I believe we have the OT as it teaches, encourages us to trust God when things like this not having a complete answer is hidden from us !

Could this Thread possibly be a test for all of us in that will we trust God no matter what as the scripture tells us over and over again, "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight." (Prov.3:5-6)

Like I said before I was struggling with this subject also . When a thread came up about it I stayed out of it until this time and I'm glad I paid attention to the Spirit of the Lord, as God's Spirit has given me an understanding that I thought I never could or would understand and He has made my path straight.

Blessing's to All !
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Old 04-17-2016, 01:25 PM
 
17,780 posts, read 8,896,463 times
Reputation: 1495
The problem with most is they do not trust the Spirit that dwells within them.
God does not need stone tablets or paper back books to touch your heart.
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Old 04-17-2016, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,520 posts, read 31,917,431 times
Reputation: 9413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post
Amen, once again !
Nicodemus is one of the excellent scripture to reveal that any of us not born again can not inherit the kingdom of God, whether baby, toddler, teenager, young adult, or an adult, period !

When we are born it is, "Flesh gives birth to flesh," we are not born in the Spirit but the flesh !! And until we can acknowledge that we are born in the flesh (sin) which can not inherit the kingdom of God, that old man, our sin nature is in this dilemma and the consequences of it is we all will inherit eternal damnation !
God's truth (His word) is what stands forever . It will never change regardless of what a human soul' emotions, will, tells them ! It seems ppl are putting God at the level of mankind's ways and thoughts and that is a very dangerous way of thinking, actually it is a form of unbelief, walking in opposition to the known will of God !

Ppl need to understand how important it is that we deny our flesh (self, emotions) and realize that especially that God's ways, thoughts are not man's way's, thoughts and He says that with no exceptions ! It is by faith we have to acknowledge this and trust the Lord that He knows what He is doing in all His ways no matter what, regardless how awful it sounds about a baby going to hell and what our emotions try to convince and make us believe .
Yes, it is difficult too understand and accept it, yet, if ppl don't turn and listen to what is being said about the will of God and respecting, reverencing our Heavenly Father God and His ways over our "self" (the flesh) by denying "self" just as Christ has told us to walk, it will not go well for any of us !

Look at all the ppl who have gone before us like Abraham, Joshua, Job, David, many of them that walked by faith in obedience to God and didn't know what or where they would go or end up, what would happen to their lives, but they trusted God with all their hearts . Yet, today because of them revealed in the scripture we too can trust God even with this subject that He is in control of all things. This is why I believe we have the OT as it teaches, encourages us to trust God when things like this not having a complete answer is hidden from us !

Could this Thread possibly be a test for all of us in that will we trust God no matter what as the scripture tells us over and over again, "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight." (Prov.3:5-6)

Like I said before I was struggling with this subject also . When a thread came up about it I stayed out of it until this time and I'm glad I paid attention to the Spirit of the Lord, as God's Spirit has given me an understanding that I thought I never could or would understand and He has made my path straight.

Blessing's to All !
Jesus said : "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Would He say that if He thought children are sinful?

Perhaps one way to fail a test is to be too adamant about something the Bible is not 100% clear about.

Quote:
Yet, today because of them revealed in the scripture we too can trust God even with this subject that He is in control of all things. This is why I believe we have the OT as it teaches, encourages us to trust God when things like this not having a complete answer is hidden from us !
Yes, you should trust God and be less adamant about a view, which can be faulty.

David was comforted by the fact that he would be reunited with his dead baby, but do you think he was talking about a reunion in hell?

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 04-17-2016 at 02:14 PM..
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Old 04-17-2016, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,320 posts, read 4,261,420 times
Reputation: 1303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
The problem with most is they do not trust the Spirit that dwells within them.
God does not need stone tablets or paper back books to touch your heart.

I think most people trust and rely on that spirit, but with me, you would be right. I used to trust a spirit, I used to utter the things it whispered and I walked in it everyday with zeal, with expectation and excitement at the thought a spirit was working through me.


Then one day I told it to shut up cause I aint listening to it anymore, and now it is as feared of me as if I was a big O'll black bear, terrified it is.
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Old 04-17-2016, 03:32 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,821,504 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Jesus said : "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Would He say that if He thought children are sinful?
Jesus would say that if that was the context in which it was being spoken of, but he wasn't.
But when God was speaking about it in that context, he said completely opposite of your supposition:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Perhaps one way to fail a test is to be too adamant about something the Bible is not 100% clear about.
But it is clear. You just refuse to accept it.
"Flesh gives birth to flesh" ~ Jesus
Romans 3:9-19
"For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. As it is written ....
  1. Romans 3:4 quotes Psalm 51:4
  2. Romans 3:12 quotes Psalms 14:1-3; 53:1-3; Eccles. 7:20
  3. Romans 3:13 quotes Psalm 5:9
  4. Romans 3:13 quotes Psalm 140:3
  5. Romans 3:14 quotes Psalm 10:7
  6. Romans 3:17 quotes Isaiah 59:7,8
  7. Romans 3:18 quotes Psalm 36:1 "
there are no exceptions, all are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
David was comforted by the fact that he would be reunited with his dead baby, but do you think he was talking about a reunion in hell?
True or false:
"faith comes from hearing the message, ... " Romans 10:7
Psalm 22:9
Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.

Psalm 22:10
From birth I was cast on you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God.

Psalm 51:6
Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb; you taught me wisdom in that secret place.
Why don't you stop asking skewed questions?
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Old 04-17-2016, 03:34 PM
 
18,929 posts, read 6,193,789 times
Reputation: 12736
Oh good grief, join 2016 world of thinking on the hell issue.
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Old 04-17-2016, 03:41 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,821,504 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post
Amen, once again !
Nicodemus is one of the excellent scripture to reveal that any of us not born again can not inherit the kingdom of God, whether baby, toddler, teenager, young adult, or an adult, period !

When we are born it is, "Flesh gives birth to flesh," we are not born in the Spirit but the flesh !! And until we can acknowledge that we are born in the flesh (sin) which can not inherit the kingdom of God, that old man, our sin nature is in this dilemma and the consequences of it is we all will inherit eternal damnation !
God's truth (His word) is what stands forever . It will never change regardless of what a human soul' emotions, will, tells them ! It seems ppl are putting God at the level of mankind's ways and thoughts and that is a very dangerous way of thinking, actually it is a form of unbelief, walking in opposition to the known will of God !

Ppl need to understand how important it is that we deny our flesh (self, emotions) and realize that especially that God's ways, thoughts are not man's way's, thoughts and He says that with no exceptions ! It is by faith we have to acknowledge this and trust the Lord that He knows what He is doing in all His ways no matter what, regardless how awful it sounds about a baby going to hell and what our emotions try to convince and make us believe .
Yes, it is difficult too understand and accept it, yet, if ppl don't turn and listen to what is being said about the will of God and respecting, reverencing our Heavenly Father God and His ways over our "self" (the flesh) by denying "self" just as Christ has told us to walk, it will not go well for any of us !

Look at all the ppl who have gone before us like Abraham, Joshua, Job, David, many of them that walked by faith in obedience to God and didn't know what or where they would go or end up, what would happen to their lives, but they trusted God with all their hearts . Yet, today because of them revealed in the scripture we too can trust God even with this subject that He is in control of all things. This is why I believe we have the OT as it teaches, encourages us to trust God when things like this not having a complete answer is hidden from us !

Could this Thread possibly be a test for all of us in that will we trust God no matter what as the scripture tells us over and over again, "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight." (Prov.3:5-6)

Like I said before I was struggling with this subject also . When a thread came up about it I stayed out of it until this time and I'm glad I paid attention to the Spirit of the Lord, as God's Spirit has given me an understanding that I thought I never could or would understand and He has made my path straight.

Blessing's to All !
Good post testifying to the the truth.
As Finn once stated, maybe because the truth is offensive.
"Flesh gives birth to flesh" ~ Jesus
Romans 3:9-19 in which:
  1. Romans 3:4 quotes Psalm 51:4
  2. Romans 3:12 quotes Psalms 14:1-3; 53:1-3; Eccles. 7:20
  3. Romans 3:13 quotes Psalm 5:9
  4. Romans 3:13 quotes Psalm 140:3
  5. Romans 3:14 quotes Psalm 10:7
  6. Romans 3:17 quotes Isaiah 59:7,8
  7. Romans 3:18 quotes Psalm 36:1 "
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Old 04-17-2016, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,520 posts, read 31,917,431 times
Reputation: 9413
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Jesus would say that if that was the context in which it was being spoken of, but he wasn't.
But when God was speaking about it in that context, he said completely opposite of your supposition:


But it is clear. You just refuse to accept it.
"Flesh gives birth to flesh" ~ Jesus
Romans 3:9-19
"For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. As it is written ....
  1. Romans 3:4 quotes Psalm 51:4
  2. Romans 3:12 quotes Psalms 14:1-3; 53:1-3; Eccles. 7:20
  3. Romans 3:13 quotes Psalm 5:9
  4. Romans 3:13 quotes Psalm 140:3
  5. Romans 3:14 quotes Psalm 10:7
  6. Romans 3:17 quotes Isaiah 59:7,8
  7. Romans 3:18 quotes Psalm 36:1 "
there are no exceptions, all are.


True or false:
"faith comes from hearing the message, ... " Romans 10:7
Psalm 22:9
Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.

Psalm 22:10
From birth I was cast on you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God.

Psalm 51:6
Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb; you taught me wisdom in that secret place.
Why don't you stop asking skewed questions?
Yes, all are under sin, but then again, I have already explained why I think babies have not yet been affected by it.

The sin nature will eventually cause everyone to sin, and wages of sins is death, but if you do not commit sins, you are innocent of them.

That is my view and I stick to it. Feel free to be adamant of your view being correct, but don't be surprised if one day you realize you were wrong.

You keep quoting verses like Romans 3:12 (all have turned away), but you do not realize that could not possibly refer to people who are incapable of turning away. Such verses actually support by view more than yours.

How does a one day old baby turn away from God? Turning away requires a decision, and our sin nature will cause us to make that decision, but not until we are able to do it.

And you offer this one: "Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit."

Is that true about babies who can't even speak?

And you offer this about babies: "Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."

Really?

"and the way of peace they do not know"

Thats right. Such thing is requires only from those who understand what peace is.

"There is no fear of God before their eyes."

Again, this can only refer to people who understand the issue.

It is clear the verses can only apply to people who are capable of doing the things they talk about.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 04-17-2016 at 04:28 PM..
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