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Old 04-20-2016, 04:17 PM
 
Location: minnesota
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I always thought Lutherans were like Catholic light. My mom's side was Catholic and my dad's side was Lutheran. I suspect my dad's side was mostly closeted atheists though. I did not know there was a holy roller branch of Lutherans.
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Old 04-20-2016, 06:25 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
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Christ ... religion - it's all nonsense.
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Old 04-20-2016, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,309 posts, read 4,253,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
I always thought Lutherans were like Catholic light. My mom's side was Catholic and my dad's side was Lutheran. I suspect my dad's side was mostly closeted atheists though. I did not know there was a holy roller branch of Lutherans.
There is Holy Roller Baptist even, lot's of Holy Rollers these days after that Pensacola thing.
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Old 04-24-2016, 03:10 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
No, that is not true. The commandment only says that God visits the sinfulness unto the third and forth generation. It does not say punishment for the sins of the previous generations. In other words, we all inherit the sinful tendency of previous generations but each is accountable to when they themselves sin as I noted in a previous post which follows.


....

The Good News is mercy and forgiveness which many here are failing to mention.
So "visit" here in your view means "allows to inherit" instead of the original word used which is probably even more vague than "visit" and could mean "recall" or "visit" or "ponder."

Here let me highlight something for your confirmation biased eyes:

Quote:
Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. ... And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick. ... on the seventh day, that the child died. 2 Samuel 12:14-18
God was "SURE" that the child would sin enough for him to cast plague upon it till death (and thus also cast it into hell). I thought people had free will, guess it's predestined unless a Bibliolatrist can choose to view it another way.

Ezekiel is merely a desperate prophet trying to do clean up like a new Pope. Ezekiel boasts of a flip-flopping God who is proud of deceit and jealousy, but anyway so does the Abrahamic story... so it's not much of a change.

Quote:
3:5 Jesus answered, I assure you, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
...
3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life [they forgot to say "eternal" or "real"]; but the wrath of God abideth on him [a threat, perhaps].
The word "spirit," "breath," and "wind" were the same word in Greek. Does a fetus beleiveth? If it Gets to Heaven, then God could send us all to Heaven by having killed us before birth or before "the age of decision" like a lot of other "people" have been "naturally" made to die before "such" age.

Last edited by LuminousTruth; 04-24-2016 at 03:39 AM..
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Old 04-24-2016, 05:19 AM
 
2,531 posts, read 1,943,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
So "visit" here in your view means "allows to inherit" instead of the original word used which is probably even more vague than "visit" and could mean "recall" or "visit" or "ponder."

Here let me highlight something for your confirmation biased eyes:



God was "SURE" that the child would sin enough for him to cast plague upon it till death (and thus also cast it into hell). I thought people had free will, guess it's predestined unless a Bibliolatrist can choose to view it another way.

Ezekiel is merely a desperate prophet trying to do clean up like a new Pope. Ezekiel boasts of a flip-flopping God who is proud of deceit and jealousy, but anyway so does the Abrahamic story... so it's not much of a change.



The word "spirit," "breath," and "wind" were the same word in Greek. Does a fetus beleiveth? If it Gets to Heaven, then God could send us all to Heaven by having killed us before birth or before "the age of decision" like a lot of other "people" have been "naturally" made to die before "such" age.

The child did not die because of inheriting the sin of David but to punish David. The child went to Heaven as alluded to in the story.


The Good News is that "visit" means that the inherited sin does not have to make itself a permanent home but rather through the Gospel sin can be cast out of your home/soul.
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Old 04-24-2016, 06:47 AM
 
632 posts, read 630,364 times
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There is perhaps nothing more painful to a woman than losing a child. The only thing I think of more painful is that of a child born healthy who was condemned to die in the womb.
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Old 04-24-2016, 08:26 AM
 
Location: GOVERNMENT of TRAITORS & NAZIS
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So essentially, evangelical fundies say WE ARE ALL BORN IN SIN--WE ALL SUFFER ETERNAL TORMENT (UNLESS we have JESUS) BUT infants and children under some arbitrary age are exempt form eternal torment..

Makes all kinds of sense to me. I am ready to convert to fundieism.
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Old 04-26-2016, 04:46 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,126 posts, read 3,940,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whos'who View Post
Are new born babies who are not saved and who have not excepted Jesus as their lord and savior, comdemned to hell?

Good Grief - I don't know about your God but my God would never condemn a newborn baby to hell so NO.
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Old 04-26-2016, 05:20 PM
 
Location: GOVERNMENT of TRAITORS & NAZIS
20,590 posts, read 22,744,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiluvr1228 View Post
Good Grief - I don't know about your God but my God would never condemn a newborn baby to hell so NO.
At what age does your God condemn chlidren to "hell?"
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Old 04-28-2016, 08:06 PM
 
25,419 posts, read 24,183,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiluvr1228 View Post
Good Grief - I don't know about your God but my God would never condemn a newborn baby to hell so NO.
Oh, I'd think not!

What about a six-month-old baby? Probably not...

Okay...how about at eight months? The little blighter might already be manipulating to get toys or food and she is beginning to understand "no" but will give the death glare and crawl straight for the older sibling's Halloween candy anyway. Cheeky thing! So maybe...?

Or no...because she can't speak yet and she can't reason so...age...two?

Oh wait, two-year-olds don't reason. Anyone who's ever had a two-year-old will attest to that. They DO manipulate, though, and it has now been shown that before age three a large percentage of children have lied. So would that be considered innocent? They're very, very young but my God those buggers can run the show with a scream or a well-timed bat of the lashes and they'll stare STRAIGHT at you and swear that it was the dog that took the last cookie.

But you know...as lies, manipulation and defiance go, those are still some pretty adorable examples. So okay. How about age seven? That's the age of reason. That's PERFECT! Except wait. How about five-year-olds who are incredibly precocious? How about seven-year-olds who are intellectually delayed?

Fine, then...thirteen? Teens pretty much all are always one step away from their parents leaving them on the church doorstep with a basket and a note anyway.

God would NEVER EVER condemn an innocent little baby! Except wait. We ALL have "sinful natures"...we are born with sinful natures. Aren't we? That's what I thought the old tome was...Am I wrong about that?

Nope. There is NO getting around the cruelty of God on this issue if you believe in the rest of what God is supposed to want, per a Biblical perspective. It is literally impossible to decide upon some arbitrary cutoff date so...nope, sorry...according to the belief system as a whole, unsaved newborn babies absolutely do roast screaming and begging in hell, along with aborted and miscarried babies.
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