Are Babies Who Have Not Been Saved Comdemned To Hell? (woman, pray)

[Ilene Wright]

Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776

Yes ... It is. It is in the opinion of those of us believe in UR that this is the next step of the Christian reformation.

Those of us who believe God's word, the Bible, are of the knowledge....not opinion.........that universalism is just another of Satan's lies that are leading people astray and away from the TRUTH. It's predicted in the Bible as are many other end time prophecies and it also warns not to be fooled by these lies. There are many of them out there including UR.

To answer the OP....no sweetheart. Babies don't go to hell. There is an age of accountability.

[Ironmaw1776]

Originally Posted by mshipmate

You guys are getting a tad ridiculous here. Just for the record I have a mentally challenged nephew and he knows who Jesus is, and if you knew your Bible as you claim, you would know God has made a way for those who have never heard with understanding. And yes, it says that in the Bible, but since all you UR's do is argue I'll let you see if you can find it yourself.

Edited to add:You guys are forgetting one very important detail here. What goes to "heaven?" The body of a newborn baby or that baby's soul?

I don't believe anyone "goes to heaven" or hell for that matter when they die. They go to the grave. They are asleep in the grave until the resurrection. I understand that mentally impaired people, especially the more severe the impairment, may well believe however those they depend on teach them to believe. But does that mean they actually understand the difference? My cousin is one year younger than I am and he is so severly mentally retarded and autistic that he cant even speak. I'm sure God will save him as well as everyone else.

The point is the whole doctrine of original sin coupled with everlasting torture or death means people who do not choose chirst before they die are damned. You are all the ones making theological exlusions to the rule to satisfy and or assuage the obvious theological conundrums with these things in order to hide the obvious difficulties that arise from such doctrines.

[Ironmaw1776]

Originally Posted by sciotamicks

Eze 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his [righteousness] in the day that he sinneth.

Eze 33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, [that] he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

Eze 33:14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;




Context...context...context.

Hello Ken ... I emailed you. I will answer this now however. Everyone dies for sin ... Everyone. There is none that are righteous not even one ... All turn their backs on God. That includes you and I even in our vaunted opinion of our special election.

Rom 3:10-18
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Destruction and misery are in their ways:
And the way of peace have they not known:
There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Are you and I exceptions to this rule? I do not think so. Death and eternal torture are completely different things, and even the wicked will be resurrected. The problem lies not in the fact that we all die, it is in the purpose of resurrection and judgment. The wages of sin is death. Nothing more. The reason why the wicked are judged before or after the resurrection, is in order to purify them so that they can also be saved from the wages of sin, which is death. Gods fiery Judgments are for purification and cleansing of them that are so judged. They are saved so as by fire(1Cr 3:15) ...

This is only a small part of what i hope to discuss with you through email. But i will also answer any questions or debate any disagreements you may have over the interpretations of the scriptures with you here if you like.

God bless and Selah.

[Ironmaw1776]

Originally Posted by Ilene Wright

Those of us who believe God's word, the Bible, are of the knowledge....not opinion.........that universalism is just another of Satan's lies that are leading people astray and away from the TRUTH. It's predicted in the Bible as are many other end time prophecies and it also warns not to be fooled by these lies. There are many of them out there including UR.

To answer the OP....no sweetheart. Babies don't go to hell. There is an age of accountability.

The church began to fall away from the original Gospel as early as the third century Ilene. What we who believe that the bible teaches UR are teaching is what the vast majority of Christians in the first 5 centuries believed and taught. Eternal torture was not accepted as orthodoxy until the sixth century.

The Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, vol. 12, p. 96; Retrieved April 29, 2007. “In the West this doctrine had fewer adherents and was never accepted by the Church at large. In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist; one (Ephesus) accepted conditional mortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked.”
* Seymour, Charles. A Theodicy of Hell. p. 25. Springer (2000). ISBN 0792363647.
* Ludlow, Morwenna. Universal Salvation: eschatology in the thought of Gregory of Nyssa and Karl Rahner. Pp. 1-2. Oxford University Press (2000). ISBN 0198270224.

If you Know for a fact anything about God then i suppose you have no need of faith then do you? And you also have no room to grow.

What you are teaching is a false doctrine which was for the most part invented in Rome(though the pharisees had a similar belief according to Josephus) and exchanged for the true teaching of Universal reconciliation and or apocatastasis in the early church in order to extort the laity through fear and hate. The doctrine of ET is almost solely responsible for the crimes against humanity perpetrated on the western world by the roman catholic church during the dark ages. Its pretty obvious to any honest person the fruits of the doctrine of eternal torture, and the effects it has had on the world since it was made orthodoxy by the roman state. But you already know all this, yet you refuse to accept it. Regardless of what you think you know, the facts remain the same.

By the way as far as i know, the age of accountability is not found anywhere in the bible. Maybe i am wrong, if so please correct me.

[Fundamentalist]

How does a thread about babies in hell get back to universalism?

[Miss Shawn_2828]

Originally Posted by pcamps

It was the man not the demon bowing , then the evil spirit legion spoke to Jesus asked Jesus not to torture him (He probably just got back from a fundamentist meeting lol) ,also demons cannot stand being in the presence of God.

So what do you fundamentalist really believe ? You speak out of both sides of your mouth.

Which one is it ?

1. God will not force anyone
2. God forces a confession out of us
lol

I speak from the bible you don't.

1 timothy 2:4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth

Ezekiel 33:11

Say to them, as surely as I live declares the Soverign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn their ways and live? Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?

LOL, you are funny because you don't take scripture for what it says

[Miss Shawn_2828]

Originally Posted by katjonjj

I'm sorry if my use of my brain (thinking) that God gave me to use for that purpose (to think) is adding to or taking away from scripture or what I want it to say. I THINK that you also THINK or you wouldn't be able to say that "the verse is saying that Jesus will send those ...." ... This is you thinking it says that.

Anyway... we can see that it is a direct quote from Psalms. Did Jesus know scripture well enough to quote it? Do we have to take the meaning of his words from the text he quoted? YES! He quoted a verse about temporarily removing those who committed iniquity from sight.. not from the earth... from sight.

I said:"Truly though, there is no harm in believing that God set out to save the world and he did. Paul says that we should not sin so that grace will abound but that we can sin. He doesn't seem to think that sinning excludes us from salvation. I gather that it is because he knows that there is no sacrifice left.. that Jesus took away ALL sin by his blood shed on the cross..."
To which you responded with:
"I get what you are trying to say, but if that was the case, Jesus never would send those who He says He will send out of His sight."

Jesus putting iniquity-filled people out of his sight has nothing to do with the FACT that Jesus covered ALL sin by his blood. So there is no sin that grace will not cover. Sending someone out of your sight and saying you never knew them is not saying they will be burned forever in hellfire nor does it take away the sacrifice Jesus made for sin.

What you wrote.. you think but it is not what scripture says if you read the Psalm that was quoted.

Read the bible and take it for what it says, not for what it doesn't say.

[Ironmaw1776]

Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828

I speak from the bible you don't.

1 timothy 2:4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth

Ezekiel 33:11

Say to them, as surely as I live declares the Soverign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn their ways and live? Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?

LOL, you are funny because you don't take scripture for what it says

You are not taking scripture for what it really says.

1Ti 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

[sciotamicks]

Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776

(1Cr 3:15)

Phillipians 3:15-19 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, [that they are] the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end [is] destruction, whose God [is their] belly, and [whose] glory [is] in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

[firstborn888]

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist

How does a thread about babies in hell get back to universalism?

Really? You don't see the connection???